[TheForge] Re: Spontanious Combustioninsubject

[Jerry Frost]

It's bacterial action that causes the heat same as in a 
compost pile. The bacteria need the right conditions to 
thrive, just the right amount, or total lack of air, 
water and food. If the pile is large enough the heat 
can't disperse and builds till it ignites. This is also 
why land fills no longer just pile garbage and bury it, 
they disperse it with soil so there isn't enough 
concentration of garbage to light up.

Fighting these kinds of fire can be really tricky. You 
can't put water on them or the bacteria'll generate 
more heat and the fire will grow. If you open the pile 
and expose it to air you might get a real flash over. 
The material may be just smoldering in the pile but it 
can't get enough air to really burn it IS however 
building heat. LOTS of heat. Expose organic material 
that's way above it's flash point to air and it will 
burn violently, on rare occasions explosively.

There are bacteria that can consume darned near 
anything. They are aerobic or anaerobic (oxy breathing 
and non-oxy breathing) aerobic bacteria respire CO2 and 
water vapor while anaerobic respire methane and other 
various things, generally. . . Very generally. Other 
byproducts are as varied as cheese and bog iron.

Anyway, ANY pile of organic material large enough with 
enough water will support bacteria in sufficient 
numbers and activity to generate sufficient heat to 
ignite. This is the single main reason I have to stack 
fresh cut hay on it's side with air gaps. Mold is the 
other important reason but finding the occasional moldy 
bale is inconvenient and expensive while burning the 
barn down is inexcuseable as it's so avoidable.

Coal seams do catch fire through spontanious 
(composting) combustion, sometimes in the tunnels, 
sometimes exposed seams. Tailings piles are notorious 
for smoldering, sometimes for centuries. The mines just 
up the highway from me have smoldering tailings piles 
and a couple smoldering seams. DNR's spent the better 
part of the last two summers trying to extinguish the 
tailings piles. We'll see how successful they were in a 
few years.

Frosty
-------------------------------
If it ain't forged
it ain't real.
Wrought iron is.
The FrostWorks

Meadow Lakes, AK.

http://www.artmetalradio.com/

From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>


>I believe your on the right tangent with this Mike. 
>In a woodshop the
> sawdust never ignites on the floor around the 
> machines - but at a
> sawmill....you'll watch the pressure of a pile steam 
> the sawdust and can
> cause this combustion process as well with wood.
>
> My take on it is it's moisture, pressure, and kind of 
> coal - I doubt that
> our insignificant amounts around a shop could ever 
> amount to much.
>
> Ralph
>

> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf 
> Of Mike Spencer
>
>
>> If coal could self ignite, we would have lots of 
>> coal
>> fire in the thousands of buildings that were heated
>> with coal furnaces during the 20th century and 
>> before.
>
> I think the problem lies with piles or bunkers that 
> are big enuough to
> insulate themselves and hold the heat in.  From some 
> hurried reading
> on the net, it seems like a ton or two stored in a 
> cool, dry cellar or
> shed is the least likely case to cause a fire.  Fifty 
> or a hundred
> tons in a deep pile exposed to rain, sun and air 
> seems to be way more
> problematic.
>
> - Mike
>
> -- 
> Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada 
> .~.
> 
> /V\