[TheForge] Heat treat for Titanium

Tue Sep 5 06:51:06 EDT 2006

Michael,

Not the least surprised by the issue of hydrogen embitterment or the "need" 
for an inert gas for normal used for titanium.  But in this case Bob is 
making a flint striker not part of an aerospace system.  He is already 
forging the item at elevated temperatures and the part has survived so far. 
Also the "heat treat plan" I suggested is based or high temperatures and 
short soak times.  He may have a problem which will cause embitterment and 
cracking but he may get away with it.

For aerospace solution heat treating of aluminum we did all of the heating 
in gas fired or electrical heated furnaces but with a inert gas -- N2. 
Quenching was all done with plain old H2O -- water.  So water from the 
quench was not a hydrogen embitterment problem -- but water vapor from the 
air in furnace was a big problem and hence the use of nitrogen for the 
furnace.

Dave Smucker
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:58 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Heat treat for Titanium

> Hi Dave; welcome back.
> I'm afraid you are about to be contradicted. Titanium is infamous for
> hydrogen embrittlement at elevated temperatures, unless it is heat treated
> either in solution or within a special inert gas filled furnace. Hydrogen
> embrittlement is one of the reasons Titanium is so tricky to weld (argon 
> or
> helium purge on the backside for TIG work. Electroplating recommended 
> before
> soldering or brazing if the part is structural.
> Mikey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David E. Smucker
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:49 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Heat treat for Titanium
>
> Titanium alloys are solution heat treated just as aerospace aluminum 
> alloys
> are solution heat treated.  Since almost all Titanium you will come across
> was intended for aerospace or medical applications most titanium alloys 
> can
> be and are solution heat treated. (Some of the medical ones may not be.)
>
> I have never myself heat treated titanium alloys so what follows is
> "handbook" information.  I have been around tons of aluminum aerospace 
> heat
> treating.
>
> First I assume that you have no clue to what alloy content your titanium
> happens to have -- so what follow is rather general.  There are a whole
> range of titanium alloys from alpha, to alpha-beta, to beta alloys.  These
> types deal with the alloy contend and the type of structures these alloys
> have at various temperatures.
>
> Those titanium alloys that are solution heat treatable are generally 
> heated
> to 1700 to 1800 F and then water quenched.  They are then followed by a
> aging at temperature in the range of 1000 F for 4 to 8 hours.  What happen
> in solution heat treating is the alloying elements go into solution at the
> heat treating temperature and are then kept in solution by quenching.  The
> aging at the elevated temperature completes the cycle giving the high
> strength and hardness you might be looking for.
>
> This said, if solution heat treating of titanium is anything like the
> solution heat treating of aluminum then very bad things happen if you over
> heat  (for aluminum airplanes fall out of the sky).  What happens is that
> you get local melting of the alloy and this results in soft or weak spots 
> in
>
> the product.
>
> But since you are making a sticker, and it is unlikely that if they "fail"
> they will kill someone, give it a try.
>
> Heat your item to 1700 F, this is what I would call an orange heat.  Then
> quench, then reheat to a dull red in very low light.  Let air cool.
>
> Dave Smucker
> (Hey, I been gone a long time.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Bob Ehrenberger" <eforge at centurytel.net>; "Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Heat treat for Titanium
>
>
>> Well...I'm no expert on titanium, but I wouldn't think
>> that heat treating would have any bearing on the
>> matter.  Steel is kinda unique, in that it is an
>> iron-carbon alloy.  It is because of the properties of
>> the various iron-carbon species that hardening and
>> tempering work the way they do.
>>
>> For example, you anneal steel by heating it to red
>> (above critical) an cooling REAL slowly, and you
>> harden it by heating it likewise and quenching it in
>> water.  In contrast, most metals are annealed by
>> bringing them up to a red heat (or at least till soft
>> - as red heat melts aluminum, for example) and
>> quenching in water.
>>
>> So, I don't know what the procedure would be for
>> titanium, if indeed there is any, to harden it.  Seems
>> to me it's just "nacherly" hard.
>>
>> You might try work-hardening it.  That works on most
>> metals.
>>
>> Bruce
>> OR/NJ
>>
>>
>> --- Bob Ehrenberger <eforge at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>
>>> A while back Pat McCarty brought a flint striker
>>> made form titanium to a BAM
>>> meeting.  It was real impressive  and put out a
>>> shower of white sparks.
>>> Well I got a piece of titanium and made a striker
>>> this last week. Not
>>> knowing how to heat treat it I just normalized it.
>>> Something isn't right,
>>> I get an occational white spark but only about one
>>> out of every 6-10 hits.
>>>
>>> I called Pat and he couldn't remember what he did to
>>> get the nice sparks.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any idea on how to heat treat it to
>>> get good sparks.  I
>>> thought I'd ask before I experimented and runed it.
>>>
>>> Robert Ehrenberger
>>> Shelbyville, Mo.
>>> eforge at centurytel.net
>>>
>>>
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