[TheForge] Response about Making Ferric Chloride

[Bruce Freeman]

Jerry,

Well, first of all, it's a manner of speach.  If I'm
not damned certain about something, I usually qualify
it.  I've noticed an awful lot of folks who speak up
about things they know little or nothing about and do
so without qualification.  I sure don't want to
emulate that sort.  In short, my "speculative" answers
are often more reliable than some other folks' "solid"
answers.  (Present company excluded, of course :^)

In the case at hand, I probably COULD have determined
the facts of the matter.  But I was too busy / lazy. 
The specific question was the preparation of ferric
chloride from muriatic acid and iron.  I have no doubt
that it is formed.  However, Bill Clemmens (sp?) says
that if you run it to exhaustion, you get the ferrOUS
chloride, not the ferrIC chloride.  That makes perfect
sense to me, and he's probably right.

But without further information, I can't state
positively that he's right.  Had I a reference that
addressed this question directly, I would have
confirmed it and been done with it.

However, those of us who've been through Chem I will
remember that the way you determine the course of such
redox reactions is to consult a table of redox
potentials, plug those in to the appropriate equations
(taking concentrations into account), and calculate
the voltage corresponding to the reaction.  

It's been YEARS since I've done that.  (It's WAY out
of my field of chemistry.)  It would probably take me
several hours to relearn the process - no doubt from
Chem I texts.  So, I fell back on  my chemists
intuition.  I'd rather my answer be useless than
wrong.

As for jumping on someone else for misuse of words,
definitions, etc.  I really don't intend to come
across that way.  Please remember that the written
word does not fully convey the emotion of the writer,
so the reader may assume the wrong one.  I know.  I've
done it myself many times.  

When I correct someone, it's not meant as a put-down,
but as an aid.  I'm clear about something that they're
fuzzy on - so I chime in with my understanding of the
matter.  Perhaps it comes across pedantic at times,
but in some cases it's FAR more important to get the
info across (like, if someone's about to kill
themselves for lack of proper info.) than to worry
about couching it in warm and fuzzy words.

This is a pretty tolerant group.  Flame wars are few
and far between.  I hope we can keep it that way.

Thanks for your input.

Bruce
NJ

--- Jerry Frost <frosty at customcpu.com> wrote:

> Bruce:
> 
> Could you answer a question for me? Please don't
> take 
> this wrong but it's been bothering me for years now.
> 
> Of all the people on the list the last one who
> should 
> be using words like "suggest" and "speculative"
> where 
> chemistry questions are concerned is you. When you 
> speculate too many people take you at your word, not
> 
> knowing you're just guessing. An educated guess
> perhaps 
> but a guess none the less. This adds to the
> confusion 
> instead of being genuinely helpful.
> 
> You have the education and if you don't have a
> proper 
> library at home or work you are online. Can't you
> look 
> the answer up before you reply? That way you won't
> be 
> "speculating," the person needing help would have a 
> solid answer and we'd all be real knowledge ahead.
> 
> You also might try to remember lay people generally
> do 
> not have the correct vocabulary to discuss chemistry
> or 
> other specialized fields so when you jump on someone
> 
> for being "wrong" you might consider they don't know
> 
> which word to use.
> 
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
> 
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
> 
> http://www.artmetalradio.com/
> 
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
> 
> 
> > Okay, that makes sense.
> > So you want to stop adding iron before you make 
> > ferrous chloride.
> > This would also explain how ferric chloride etches
> 
> > iron - the ferric
> > becomes ferrous while the iron also becomes
> ferrous.
> > I haven't looked into the electropotentials of
> these 
> > reactions, so this
> > is speculative.
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> >
> 
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