[TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer

Tue May 23 17:51:39 EDT 2006

My suspicion is that with a compressible fluid you would not be able to rely
on positioning like that unless you incorporated some kind of feedback.

An optical sensor connected to a wee microcontroller ought to do it, and a
rotary sensor on the treadle.

Hammer-by-wire, anyone?

Of course, such delicate electronics have no place in a smith's shop!

Rich M.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Demon Buddha
> Sent: 23 May 2006 22:39
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer
> 
> 
> I have a question.
> 
> For several years I've been considering the value of multiple valving 
> schemes for air hammers where one can switch between control 
> layouts for 
> differingwork requirements.  One scheme would be the standard 
> fomr found 
> on most hammers such as Nazels where the frequency and force of the 
> blows are regulated by the depth of depression of a treadle 
> or control 
> handle. The other scheme is similar to that of the Kickass 
> hammers where 
> depression causes clamping.  My idea, and hence my question, 
> relates to 
> the latter, where the degree of depression of the treadle 
> determines ram 
> height.  What I mean is that the ram position would track treadle 
> position precisely.  E.g., if I depress the treadle half way, the ram 
> would descend half way down its stroke.  If I depress the treadle 
> slowly, the ram moves slowly.  If I depress it rapidly, the 
> ram follows 
> suit.  The speed and distance of the treadle determines the speed and 
> distance of the ram.  Does this make sense?  Thew question, then, is 
> whether valving for such a scheme is feasible.  I know it is with 
> hydraulics.  For example, the depth adjustment for plows on 
> tractors are 
> usually set by positioning a lever.  Can this be implemented 
> using air?
> 
> I'd like to experiment with this sort of setup to see how 
> well it works 
> in terms of allowing the smith to exercise very precisely controlled 
> blows, especially in situations where top tooling is being 
> used.  I've 
> seen the Kickass in action but I do not recall if it 
> functions in this 
> manner.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	-andy
> 
> Grover Richardson wrote:
> > Yes.  A cheap switch would also be the brake light switch 
> for a 1939 
> > Buick. It sees pressure when you push on the brake pedal.
> > 
> > Hmm.  An addition would be to have a regular light to also shine on 
> > the hammering area.  That way the area of danger would be 
> illuminated 
> > as an additional notice, and as an aid to hammering.
> > 
> > Part numbers like this are useful for anyone who wants to copy the 
> > design.
> > 
> > Thanks!!
> > 
> > All the best.
> > 
> > 
> >>*>-----Original Message-----
> >>*>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> >>*>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dave mudge
> >>*>Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:23 PM
> >>*>To: Sponsored by ABANA
> >>*>Subject: RE: [TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer
> >>*>
> >>*>
> >>*>Grover, you are correct about the potential danger of air 
> >>*>hammers. Just like a motorized mechanical hammer with the 
> >>*>on/off switch mounted near by your air hammer should have a 
> >>*>ball valve (on/off switch) located right on the hammer. I 
> >>*>have a red light that goes on when the hammer is energized 
> >>*>and off when there is no pressure. 
> >>*>http://www.magichammer.freeservers.com/page31.html will show 
> >>*>you a picture of the light. You can find a light here: 
> >>*>http://tinyurl.com/pvjl6
> >>*>(www.teksupply.com)
> >>*>search for item number LK1505 The air pressure / electric 
> >>*>switch that I used is a homemade device (engineered by Byrne 
> >>*>Lobdell) from an old air conditioner window unit. I think 
> >>*>that Granger has a similar switch. dave m
> >>*>
> >>*>-----Original Message-----
> >>*>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> >>*>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Grover 
> >>*>Richardson
> >>*>Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:25 AM
> >>*>To: 'Sponsored by ABANA'
> >>*>Subject: RE: [TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer
> >>*>
> >>*>
> >>*>	Thing to remember is that a power hammer, when it is 
> >>*>running, is obvious and dangerous to the casual observer.
> >>*>
> >>*>	An air hammer, when running, is a rat trap waiting to 
> >>*>be tripped. At a meeting last Saturday, I announced the 
> >>*>danger of an air hammer.  In that it is armed and ready to 
> >>*>go, and the air compressor is 2 buildings away.  There is no 
> >>*>obvious sign that an air hammer is ready to work, other than 
> >>*>the fact that the air lever is moved 90 degrees, or the wood 
> >>*>block is underneath the foot leaver.  Non-blacksmiths would 
> >>*>miss such signs.
> >>*>
> >>*>	Not long after, someone (I leave the name out because I 
> >>*>almost did the same thing years ago) stepped on the 
> >>*>operating lever.  It moved. Immediately the wood block was 
> >>*>re-placed underneath the foot leaver.
> >>*>
> >>*>	Air hammers are good, but can be a silent killer when 
> >>*>visitors are in the shop.
> >>*>
> >>*>_______________________________________________
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> >>*>
> >>*>
> >>*>
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> > 
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