[TheForge] Re: 250# Murray (Was Re: test)

Sun Mar 26 22:56:39 EST 2006

Ralph:  This was a real useful response on your part...you hit it right on
the head regarding rebuilding LGs....preparation of the mating surfaces is
critical.  You also mentioned determining which hammers are rebuildable and
which are not.

Obvious cracks,etc. in cast frames, are disqualifiers.  Do you have a
systematic check up procedure that you use to determine if the LG hammer is
salvageable/cost effective to rebuild?  If so, how do you make this
determination?  What are your criteria?  I'm curious, as are most other
hammer users.

											Grant

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Ralph Sproul
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:50 PM
To: mspencer at tallships.ca; Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Re: 250# Murray (Was Re: test)

	Hi Mike, With an underpowered truck it may be wise to let the club deal
with it.  These big old hammers seem to be getting harder to come by lately
though.

	Another avenue to persue besides logging and farm machinery is the car
haulers.  6,000 lbs is a full size car of pickup weight.......so maybe one
of those tilting ramp trucks that delivering up by this hammer - could haul
it home.  A one way pay would certainly be less than a round trip.  This may
mean you have to go jack it up off the bolts and make it near enough by the
door for them to deal with it on winches .......or stripping it apart to
keep some of the weight off the top also helps.

	Around here I've paid anywhere from $1000 - 1200, for 50 lb mechanicals in
rebuildable shape (which is the only one's I'll buy).  Going rate for a 50
lber in good running condition is about $2500-3500.   I usually take the
ones that need new shafts, new babbit, clutch and toggle rebuilds, etc.   I
tinker and resell them. I won't sell a totally rebuilt hammer for less than
$3500-4000.
	You usually find most guys selling  hammers (or trying to for a long time)
as "perfect working order" as they pitch them to me (and they have over 1/8"
play in the babbits with no shims left.  Your in for a go of it on those -
but it is amazing what crap folks try to pass off as "in perfect working
order".  Biggest sign of a bad bearing, is the hammer will not stop
coasting, and the clutch usually fails to release as it goes into an
eccentric wobble that won't allow it to.
	I'm finding many hammers (I've purchased 2) - that have had new babbit
bearings poured - but no one took the time to level the shaft or better put
"squared it to the ram guides" before pouring ........so they shouldn't have
even bothered as it makes it a total waste of time.  After they've done
this - the toggles will be all loose from running on an angle and again with
so much weight throwing out of balance - nothing in the clutch department
works smoothly any more.
	They usually tend to sell it as "I totally rebuilt it - but this thing just
don't work right"........ well they rebuilt it alright - but the starting
reference of where the shaft has to lie is what they missed - so the
hammer's won't ever run right till you pick up the front of the shaft.  This
is notorious for the novice to "leave the bottom" and pour the top cap which
is easy - but you end up with a shaft that's low in the front and a hammer
that won't operate properly - be ware of this as it is a common mistake in
buying a mechanical that someone has repaired.  Just put a framing square on
the shaft and eye it to the ram guides - it'll tell you what the real deal
with the hammer is.
	So in answer to your question - the going rate is determined by the actual
condition of the hammer.  It is up to you to recognize this condition or
not.   I see this hammer size sell for $2500-3500 around here......if it is
truely in average or better n average condition.

	We made an axle that bolts to an air hammer on Bob Bordeaux's hammer - and
he pulls it around like a trailer with a hitch that bolts to the
top..........it may be a little hard to lay the Mouloch 250 down onto the
hitch slowly though...........   :-)
	I've also seen guys take mobile home axles and tack weld em to the fab
tables to move them across town......... people usually tend to send me
pictures like this.......what they did and got away with kind of
shots.......       :-)

Ralph

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Mike Spencer
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:15 PM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [TheForge] Re: 250# Murray (Was Re: test)

> Mike, I never heard you sound so responsible before.........
>
>Congradultions on growing up, making wiser choices, and being so sure
>of your priorities of late...........

Jeez, Ralph, now I'm just gonna have to go out and do something
completely off the wall, just to recover my self esteem. :-)

I um... what's that word?  Yeah, I "mispoke" anyhow.  It's 200 miles
each way or a 400 mi. round trip to fetch the Murray home.

> Your 3/4 ton truck ought to pull a borrowed 5 ton tag along...

Yeah, well, maybe.  But my truck is woefully underpowered with a 302
engine. I might have to make half of such a run in 3rd at 30 mph.  I
am looking around for someone who hauls farm or logging mchinery that
might be deadheading back from up that way.  But I'd be just as happy
to see MBA get it.  I think there's a committe or board meeting this
weekend where they'll discuss it.

What's the going price down that way for a 50# Little Giant or Jardine
in average or perhaps a bit better than average condition?  I've found
one but the guy wants more than my budget will support.  He'd come
down a bit (or maybe a lot) if I could reasonably demonstrate that he
was way off base.

> ...when I read the bit about hauling it on your truck, what flashed
> into my head was a picture of you converting the hammer into a
> motorized vehicle, with pto for the hammer itself...

Well, if there were a 10 or 20 HP stationary engine at the same
location and a really heavy-duty freight dolly with 10" solid rubber
and steel wheels....flat belt...tension pulley...yeah, it might be
doable. :-)

BTW, if any of you guys are keen on old stationary engines, here's
something for your reference shelf:

     http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/acadia/index.html

- Mike

--
Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~.
                                                           /V\
mspencer at tallships.ca                                     /( )\
http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
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