[TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
Mike Porter
michael.a.porter at comcast.net
Mon Jun 12 15:31:56 EDT 2006
No, not slumped glass; not even slumped ceramic, which would be pushing the
technical limits (of the molds) pretty hard. It's a question of down shock.
I don't think such glass doors could be used where they were exposed to
thermal cycling. Etched would likely be the limit for glass decoration on
fireplace doors.
Mikey
-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Freeman
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 5:12 AM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
Of course, with a glassworker to help out, one could probably do some
awesome slumped-glass fireplace doors. Maybe slump into a mold that
reproduces on the glass a motif in the iron frame...
>>> brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com 6/12/2006 6:51:41 AM >>>
Roger, Bob, Bill, Walt, and Justin, Thanks for the tips on the
glass
temps, materials to work it against, etc. This is all helpful in
thinking
on this a bit more.
The glass fellow I'm dealing with has 34 years into his trade and does
some
awesome work - Now I have an idea about temps we'll be working with,
materials to use, and needing tempering after slumping. Once I get
patterns
made for lens fit - then I can work on arc to fit the compound curves
in the
light. I already have negatives made to create the frame - so I'm
ahead of
the game on that part.
This is the first time I've fitted glass to a curved surface so it's
interesting, educational, and I feel good about having someone with so
much
experience in his trade to go to.
I'm going to inquire to him about glass doors for fireplace fronts as
well -
he mentioned doing pyrex lenses for these, so he'll probably have some
input
on where to find sheet, holding, etc.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:12 AM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
Ralph, if you do not get the feedback you hoped for here I will
suggest
you temporarily join the Artmetal discussion group. Seems quite a few
have
worked with glass there. Although their annual shindig is just
beginning to
get underway and many may be leaving their homes and computers to
attend
such.
I do know of one friend who slumps glass for hanging fixtures and I
can
describe his method... He has a series of sizes available and slumps
his
glass over stainless steel mixing bowls from the local True Value
hardware
store.
I know this is not the shape you are after and my only point may be
that you
could probably form your shape out of something much lighter than you
may be
thinking.
R Olsen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:28 AM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
>
> All good info Roger, The fellow that showed me the masonry furnace
doors
> had similar angles welded three sides behind the door with the
gasket
> tensioning the glass to the door. His was the thick white heavy
rope
> gasket
> and looked rather poorly. I like the idea of a grey colored that
would
> tone
> down the difference between glass and steel so it doesn't look like
it was
> silicoln caulked into the door (like his did).
>
> Thanks for sending this along - very helpful.
>
> On another glass tangent, I'm making 15 sconces for a ski area
currently -
> and the glass is to be "slumped" to the compound curves of the light
> fixture. Anyone have suggestions on how to build glass molds for
slumping
> and some do's and don'ts before I get to far along? Just curious if
> anyone
> has done any of these types of projects.
> My current train of thought is to slump over the curve to relax the
lens
> to
> shape going down on the ends. I'll use 3/8 plate to shape to the
outside
> radius of the frame to get the form, and brace the steel plate with
> gussets
> from the rear to work with and not distort. Any ideas what temps
slumping
> occurs at? How will glass release from steel? Can sides to shape
the
> glass
> be done in a prior mold?
> I'll be meeting with the glass artist next week when I get the proto
type
> done to discuss this and he'll have some input for sure - but I was
> wondering if someone has dealt with this making and shaping of glass
> lenses
> before? It would be nice to have some kind of a clue before I walk
in the
> door.
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:06 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>
>
>> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or
which
>> glass do you use in your doors?
>
> I have only used tempered or Ceran, Ceran is considerably more
expensive.
> I let the client decide which type of glass they want to go with., I
tell
> them what I can about each but recommend they call a fireplace shop
and
> ask
> for themselves. Ceran can cost as much as $400 just for the glass,
> tempered
> about $80, of course costs vary with size and if there is an arch or
not.
>
>> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain
distance? -
>> what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for
expansion?
>
> Yes, whatever my width is from inside wall to inside wall of the
two
> verticals of the 1/8th by 1/2 angle I have the glass cut 3/16th of an
inch
> less, this theoretically gives me 3/32 per side but that is if I
was
> perfect in welding on the angle which I am far from. With the gasket
rope
> pushed in to the angle it all disappears and comes out very clean
looking.
> There is no top to the angle iron frame so I only have to think
about
> width.
>
> Roger
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:31 PM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
>
>
>>
>> Thanks Roger, This is all helpful.
>>
>> Any in put on the glass?
>>
>> I seem to remember someone told me there was: tempered - which was
the
>> cheapest
>>
>> Then high heat - best as far as affordable direct fire exposure
>>
>> Then the ceramic - best but costly.
>>
>> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or
which
>> glass do you use in your doors?
>>
>> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain
distance? -
>> what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for
expansion?
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
>> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:30 PM
>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>
>>
>> when I slide the glass down the frame made by the 1/8 by 1/2 angle
I
>> simply
>> cut a piece of the gray stove gasket rope that is round on the back
side
>> of
>> the glass and under the angle, it holds everything nice and tight
tucked
>> back in there. They do make a gasket that is gutter shaped and you
can
>> wrap
>> around the edge of the glass but that holds the glass back and away
from
>> the
>> door frames and just does not look as tight and clean.
>>
>> In the tourist / vacation valley that I live there are only two
masons,
>> both
>> exclusively build Rumford of Rumford hybrid fireplaces, this means
the
>> fire
>> cannot be burned with the doors shut. I do whatever the client or
>> designer
>> for architect or builder wants and there are many options. Most
common
>> is
>> a metal curtain that is mounted to the back side of the top
horizontal of
>> the subframe. My hinges are designed so the doors can be lifted off
if
>> one
>> wishes or burned just swung open.
>>
>> Another option is fixed screen panels that can be slid in when the
glass
>> is
>> slid out. I sandwich the screen between two pieces of 1/2 by 1/8th
flat
>> stock riveted to all four edges.
>>
>> Yes, double hinges can be built for glass and screens, I have
never
>> built
>> this kind, have looked closely at maybe four different versions
that I
>> have
>> seen and must say I have never seen any of these that I thought came
out
>> nice, clean, and really looking right.....................just my
>> opinion.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> Ps. if you google Rumford fireplace you will find the home page
for
>> Rumford
>> with a link to photos of many hand made fireplace door sets. I am
not
>> sure
>> if they are still there but some of mine had ended up there as
well.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:57 AM
>> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Roger, Thanks for the three sided slide in info on the angles -
I've
>>> seen this used on masonry furnace doors my buddy does. The sealing
>>> gasket
>>> was a mystery to me as it was all welted in rope - and this grey
>>> material
>>> you mention is something I'd like to know more about.
>>>
>>> When you say the grey colored gasket stuff is this something the
glass
>>> supplier provides for you? or did you purchase this seperate from
>>> McMaster
>>> or another
>>> similar industrial supplier? or is this material a refractory
supplier
>>> that
>>> you use?
>>>
>>> If you have time, I know you've posted the three glass types for
fire
>>> exposure before (but I'll be damned if I can find them). Being as
I'm
>>> being
>>> asked to
>>> do one of these screen & glass combo covers, would you have that
info
>>> again
>>> on the glasses?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info you've got as someone that's done over 30 of
these
>>> sure
>>> has a lot more knowledge than me attempting my first glass
enclosure.
>>>
>>> I've also heard that using the same pintle with an L bracket hinge
to
>>> the
>>> rear screen allows both door units to swing out and be inside each
other
>>> when closed (screen in and glass out - then when open the glass is
>>> against
>>> the outer hearth/chimney, and the screen is in use or can be opened
more
>>> than 90 degrees for ease of loading. Is this how you approach this
as
>>> well?
>>>
>>> I remember you sent me some nice picture of the hinges you made -
but it
>>> was
>>> for one set of doors - what have you done for swinging both doors
when
>>> requested? Of have you done just screen or glass and not both?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
>>> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 3:16 AM
>>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>>
>>>
>>> I mount my glass behind the doors in a frame of 1/8th by 1/2 inch
angle
>>> that
>>> is welded to the back of the doors on the two sides and the bottom.
The
>>> glass is held tight by fireplace gasket material, the gray cloth
stuff.
>>> The
>>> glass just slides into the frame behind the doors and his held snug
by
>>> the
>>> gasket fabric. Works great, I have built around 3 dozen fire door
sets
>>> this way with never a problem.
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "paul" <forge at wi.rr.com>
>>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wayne Ackman wrote:
>>>>> I am finishing a set of fireplace doors, I have the glass from
the
>>>>> cutters and it sets in with about 1/4" space around all sides, a
bit
>>>>> more
>>>>> than I wanted but.... I am wondering about the best way to fix
the
>>>>> glass
>>>>> in the frame. I could set straps across the corners and screw
them
>>>>> on.
>>>>> Would allow the glass to be replaced if necessary, but would
detract
>>>>> from the design. Or I could caulk it in, which would help with
the
>>>>> space
>>>>> between the glass and the frame, but I don't know what the heat
would
>>>>> do
>>>>> to that. Nothing good, that I can imagine. I am not coming up
with
>>>>> an
>>>>> idea that I like so was wondering if you all might...
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Don't know if it helps, but stained glass pieces installed in
lead
>>>> channels are locked in place with plaster of Paris. Might be a
solution
>>>> for your application. High temp silicones sounds like a good idea,
but
>>>> they are so PERMANENT. Better have every thing in place... the
first
>>>> time.
>>>> Seems as if the largest problem would be the different expansion
ratios
>>>> of
>>>> glass and metal. Some means of allowing for expansion would seem
like a
>>>> good idea...
>>>> Paul Sperbeck
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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>
>
>
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