[TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
Ralph Sproul
brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com
Mon Jun 12 13:08:42 EDT 2006
What's your daily bag limit on rich clients?? .........."keep your pole
up high & wait for nibbles"......scheesch - this sounds like one of them
wild texas
fishing stories.
I have never built anything on spec. I just build what folks want and
can't get somewhere's else.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of robert hensarling
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:31 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
They're out there Ralph, somewhere. The building boom has gone ballistic
almost everywhere. Even in this crazy State you look around and see that
cheap white pine springing up behind and in front of every tree. Not enough
good contractors to do the jobs either. In the big money places (Cashiers,
NC, and I don't know about Maine) they are buying anything they can get
their hands on. Check with Interior Decorators if you haven't already put
them on your "Don not Call" list. Send them pictures of that project, and I
bet it'll have a owner pretty soon. You have to throw the bait out there,
reel it in really slow, then throw again. When you start getting nibbles,
then tense up and get ready to run to the back of the boat with your pole up
high!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
> I'll start with the lights......unfortunately I haven't found those
clients
> that will pay for me to build what ever I dream up just yet! :-) Still
> looking.
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Bruce Freeman
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:12 AM
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
>
>
> Of course, with a glassworker to help out, one could probably do some
> awesome slumped-glass fireplace doors. Maybe slump into a mold that
> reproduces on the glass a motif in the iron frame...
>
> >>> brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com 6/12/2006 6:51:41 AM >>>
> Roger, Bob, Bill, Walt, and Justin, Thanks for the tips on the
> glass
> temps, materials to work it against, etc. This is all helpful in
> thinking
> on this a bit more.
>
> The glass fellow I'm dealing with has 34 years into his trade and does
> some
> awesome work - Now I have an idea about temps we'll be working with,
> materials to use, and needing tempering after slumping. Once I get
> patterns
> made for lens fit - then I can work on arc to fit the compound curves
> in the
> light. I already have negatives made to create the frame - so I'm
> ahead of
> the game on that part.
>
> This is the first time I've fitted glass to a curved surface so it's
> interesting, educational, and I feel good about having someone with so
> much
> experience in his trade to go to.
>
> I'm going to inquire to him about glass doors for fireplace fronts as
> well -
> he mentioned doing pyrex lenses for these, so he'll probably have some
> input
> on where to find sheet, holding, etc.
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:12 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
>
>
> Ralph, if you do not get the feedback you hoped for here I will
> suggest
> you temporarily join the Artmetal discussion group. Seems quite a few
> have
> worked with glass there. Although their annual shindig is just
> beginning to
> get underway and many may be leaving their homes and computers to
> attend
> such.
>
> I do know of one friend who slumps glass for hanging fixtures and I
> can
> describe his method... He has a series of sizes available and slumps
> his
> glass over stainless steel mixing bowls from the local True Value
> hardware
> store.
>
> I know this is not the shape you are after and my only point may be
> that you
> could probably form your shape out of something much lighter than you
> may be
> thinking.
>
> R Olsen
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:28 AM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
>
>
> >
> > All good info Roger, The fellow that showed me the masonry furnace
> doors
> > had similar angles welded three sides behind the door with the
> gasket
> > tensioning the glass to the door. His was the thick white heavy
> rope
> > gasket
> > and looked rather poorly. I like the idea of a grey colored that
> would
> > tone
> > down the difference between glass and steel so it doesn't look like
> it was
> > silicoln caulked into the door (like his did).
> >
> > Thanks for sending this along - very helpful.
> >
> > On another glass tangent, I'm making 15 sconces for a ski area
> currently -
> > and the glass is to be "slumped" to the compound curves of the light
> > fixture. Anyone have suggestions on how to build glass molds for
> slumping
> > and some do's and don'ts before I get to far along? Just curious if
> > anyone
> > has done any of these types of projects.
> > My current train of thought is to slump over the curve to relax the
> lens
> > to
> > shape going down on the ends. I'll use 3/8 plate to shape to the
> outside
> > radius of the frame to get the form, and brace the steel plate with
> > gussets
> > from the rear to work with and not distort. Any ideas what temps
> slumping
> > occurs at? How will glass release from steel? Can sides to shape
> the
> > glass
> > be done in a prior mold?
> > I'll be meeting with the glass artist next week when I get the proto
> type
> > done to discuss this and he'll have some input for sure - but I was
> > wondering if someone has dealt with this making and shaping of glass
> > lenses
> > before? It would be nice to have some kind of a clue before I walk
> in the
> > door.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:06 PM
> > To: Sponsored by ABANA
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
> >
> >
> >> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or
> which
> >> glass do you use in your doors?
> >
> > I have only used tempered or Ceran, Ceran is considerably more
> expensive.
> > I let the client decide which type of glass they want to go with., I
> tell
> > them what I can about each but recommend they call a fireplace shop
> and
> > ask
> > for themselves. Ceran can cost as much as $400 just for the glass,
> > tempered
> > about $80, of course costs vary with size and if there is an arch or
> not.
> >
> >> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain
> distance? -
> >> what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for
> expansion?
> >
> > Yes, whatever my width is from inside wall to inside wall of the
> two
> > verticals of the 1/8th by 1/2 angle I have the glass cut 3/16th of an
> inch
> > less, this theoretically gives me 3/32 per side but that is if I
> was
> > perfect in welding on the angle which I am far from. With the gasket
> rope
> > pushed in to the angle it all disappears and comes out very clean
> looking.
> > There is no top to the angle iron frame so I only have to think
> about
> > width.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:31 PM
> > Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks Roger, This is all helpful.
> >>
> >> Any in put on the glass?
> >>
> >> I seem to remember someone told me there was: tempered - which was
> the
> >> cheapest
> >>
> >> Then high heat - best as far as affordable direct fire exposure
> >>
> >> Then the ceramic - best but costly.
> >>
> >> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or
> which
> >> glass do you use in your doors?
> >>
> >> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain
> distance? -
> >> what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for
> expansion?
> >>
> >> Ralph
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> >> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:30 PM
> >> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
> >>
> >>
> >> when I slide the glass down the frame made by the 1/8 by 1/2 angle
> I
> >> simply
> >> cut a piece of the gray stove gasket rope that is round on the back
> side
> >> of
> >> the glass and under the angle, it holds everything nice and tight
> tucked
> >> back in there. They do make a gasket that is gutter shaped and you
> can
> >> wrap
> >> around the edge of the glass but that holds the glass back and away
> from
> >> the
> >> door frames and just does not look as tight and clean.
> >>
> >> In the tourist / vacation valley that I live there are only two
> masons,
> >> both
> >> exclusively build Rumford of Rumford hybrid fireplaces, this means
> the
> >> fire
> >> cannot be burned with the doors shut. I do whatever the client or
> >> designer
> >> for architect or builder wants and there are many options. Most
> common
> >> is
> >> a metal curtain that is mounted to the back side of the top
> horizontal of
> >> the subframe. My hinges are designed so the doors can be lifted off
> if
> >> one
> >> wishes or burned just swung open.
> >>
> >> Another option is fixed screen panels that can be slid in when the
> glass
> >> is
> >> slid out. I sandwich the screen between two pieces of 1/2 by 1/8th
> flat
> >> stock riveted to all four edges.
> >>
> >> Yes, double hinges can be built for glass and screens, I have
> never
> >> built
> >> this kind, have looked closely at maybe four different versions
> that I
> >> have
> >> seen and must say I have never seen any of these that I thought came
> out
> >> nice, clean, and really looking right.....................just my
> >> opinion.
> >>
> >> Hope this helps.
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >> Ps. if you google Rumford fireplace you will find the home page
> for
> >> Rumford
> >> with a link to photos of many hand made fireplace door sets. I am
> not
> >> sure
> >> if they are still there but some of mine had ended up there as
> well.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
> >> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:57 AM
> >> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Roger, Thanks for the three sided slide in info on the angles -
> I've
> >>> seen this used on masonry furnace doors my buddy does. The sealing
> >>> gasket
> >>> was a mystery to me as it was all welted in rope - and this grey
> >>> material
> >>> you mention is something I'd like to know more about.
> >>>
> >>> When you say the grey colored gasket stuff is this something the
> glass
> >>> supplier provides for you? or did you purchase this seperate from
> >>> McMaster
> >>> or another
> >>> similar industrial supplier? or is this material a refractory
> supplier
> >>> that
> >>> you use?
> >>>
> >>> If you have time, I know you've posted the three glass types for
> fire
> >>> exposure before (but I'll be damned if I can find them). Being as
> I'm
> >>> being
> >>> asked to
> >>> do one of these screen & glass combo covers, would you have that
> info
> >>> again
> >>> on the glasses?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any info you've got as someone that's done over 30 of
> these
> >>> sure
> >>> has a lot more knowledge than me attempting my first glass
> enclosure.
> >>>
> >>> I've also heard that using the same pintle with an L bracket hinge
> to
> >>> the
> >>> rear screen allows both door units to swing out and be inside each
> other
> >>> when closed (screen in and glass out - then when open the glass is
> >>> against
> >>> the outer hearth/chimney, and the screen is in use or can be opened
> more
> >>> than 90 degrees for ease of loading. Is this how you approach this
> as
> >>> well?
> >>>
> >>> I remember you sent me some nice picture of the hinges you made -
> but it
> >>> was
> >>> for one set of doors - what have you done for swinging both doors
> when
> >>> requested? Of have you done just screen or glass and not both?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ralph
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> >>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> >>> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 3:16 AM
> >>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> >>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I mount my glass behind the doors in a frame of 1/8th by 1/2 inch
> angle
> >>> that
> >>> is welded to the back of the doors on the two sides and the bottom.
> The
> >>> glass is held tight by fireplace gasket material, the gray cloth
> stuff.
> >>> The
> >>> glass just slides into the frame behind the doors and his held snug
> by
> >>> the
> >>> gasket fabric. Works great, I have built around 3 dozen fire door
> sets
> >>> this way with never a problem.
> >>>
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "paul" <forge at wi.rr.com>
> >>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:13 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Wayne Ackman wrote:
> >>>>> I am finishing a set of fireplace doors, I have the glass from
> the
> >>>>> cutters and it sets in with about 1/4" space around all sides, a
> bit
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> than I wanted but.... I am wondering about the best way to fix
> the
> >>>>> glass
> >>>>> in the frame. I could set straps across the corners and screw
> them
> >>>>> on.
> >>>>> Would allow the glass to be replaced if necessary, but would
> detract
> >>>>> from the design. Or I could caulk it in, which would help with
> the
> >>>>> space
> >>>>> between the glass and the frame, but I don't know what the heat
> would
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> to that. Nothing good, that I can imagine. I am not coming up
> with
> >>>>> an
> >>>>> idea that I like so was wondering if you all might...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wayne
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> password: anvil
> >>>>> ___________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Don't know if it helps, but stained glass pieces installed in
> lead
> >>>> channels are locked in place with plaster of Paris. Might be a
> solution
> >>>> for your application. High temp silicones sounds like a good idea,
> but
> >>>> they are so PERMANENT. Better have every thing in place... the
> first
> >>>> time.
> >>>> Seems as if the largest problem would be the different expansion
> ratios
> >>>> of
> >>>> glass and metal. Some means of allowing for expansion would seem
> like a
> >>>> good idea...
> >>>> Paul Sperbeck
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> ___________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >>
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