[TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
Ralph Sproul
brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com
Sun Jun 11 21:45:51 EDT 2006
Walt, I have a fellow who's got three glass furnaces and a tempering oven -
so I'm going to let him worry about the annealing. I'm trying to help out
with glass molds to make the shapes that will then be slumped and on to
annealing.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Walter Mullett
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 10:42 AM
To: 'Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
Ralph,
At our last WRABA hammer-in, we toyed with melting glass shards into holes
in steel plates. Looks like that process could lead to some interesting
designs. One of the things we talked about was the need to anneal the glass
afterwards to stop it from cracking. I would think you would have to do
that too if you just slumped it.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ralph Sproul
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:29 AM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors & glass shaping
All good info Roger, The fellow that showed me the masonry furnace
doors had similar angles welded three sides behind the door with the gasket
tensioning the glass to the door. His was the thick white heavy rope gasket
and looked rather poorly. I like the idea of a grey colored that would tone
down the difference between glass and steel so it doesn't look like it was
silicoln caulked into the door (like his did).
Thanks for sending this along - very helpful.
On another glass tangent, I'm making 15 sconces for a ski area
currently - and the glass is to be "slumped" to the compound curves of the
light fixture. Anyone have suggestions on how to build glass molds for
slumping and some do's and don'ts before I get to far along? Just curious
if anyone has done any of these types of projects.
My current train of thought is to slump over the curve to relax the
lens to shape going down on the ends. I'll use 3/8 plate to shape to the
outside radius of the frame to get the form, and brace the steel plate with
gussets from the rear to work with and not distort. Any ideas what temps
slumping occurs at? How will glass release from steel? Can sides to shape
the glass be done in a prior mold?
I'll be meeting with the glass artist next week when I get the proto
type done to discuss this and he'll have some input for sure - but I was
wondering if someone has dealt with this making and shaping of glass lenses
before? It would be nice to have some kind of a clue before I walk in the
door.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:06 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or
> which glass do you use in your doors?
I have only used tempered or Ceran, Ceran is considerably more expensive.
I let the client decide which type of glass they want to go with., I tell
them what I can about each but recommend they call a fireplace shop and ask
for themselves. Ceran can cost as much as $400 just for the glass, tempered
about $80, of course costs vary with size and if there is an arch or not.
> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain
> distance? - what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for
expansion?
Yes, whatever my width is from inside wall to inside wall of the two
verticals of the 1/8th by 1/2 angle I have the glass cut 3/16th of an inch
less, this theoretically gives me 3/32 per side but that is if I was
perfect in welding on the angle which I am far from. With the gasket rope
pushed in to the angle it all disappears and comes out very clean looking.
There is no top to the angle iron frame so I only have to think about width.
Roger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
>
> Thanks Roger, This is all helpful.
>
> Any in put on the glass?
>
> I seem to remember someone told me there was: tempered - which was the
> cheapest
>
> Then high heat - best as far as affordable direct fire exposure
>
> Then the ceramic - best but costly.
>
> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or
> which glass do you use in your doors?
>
> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain
> distance? - what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for
expansion?
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:30 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>
>
> when I slide the glass down the frame made by the 1/8 by 1/2 angle I
> simply cut a piece of the gray stove gasket rope that is round on the
> back side of the glass and under the angle, it holds everything nice
> and tight tucked back in there. They do make a gasket that is gutter
> shaped and you can wrap around the edge of the glass but that holds
> the glass back and away from the door frames and just does not look as
> tight and clean.
>
> In the tourist / vacation valley that I live there are only two
> masons, both exclusively build Rumford of Rumford hybrid fireplaces,
> this means the fire cannot be burned with the doors shut. I do
> whatever the client or designer for architect or builder wants and
> there are many options. Most common is a metal curtain that is
> mounted to the back side of the top horizontal of the subframe. My
> hinges are designed so the doors can be lifted off if one wishes or
> burned just swung open.
>
> Another option is fixed screen panels that can be slid in when the
> glass is slid out. I sandwich the screen between two pieces of 1/2 by
> 1/8th flat stock riveted to all four edges.
>
> Yes, double hinges can be built for glass and screens, I have never
> built this kind, have looked closely at maybe four different versions
> that I have seen and must say I have never seen any of these that I
> thought came out nice, clean, and really looking
> right.....................just my opinion.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Roger
>
> Ps. if you google Rumford fireplace you will find the home page for
> Rumford with a link to photos of many hand made fireplace door sets.
> I am not sure if they are still there but some of mine had ended up
> there as well.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:57 AM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Roger, Thanks for the three sided slide in info on the angles -
>> I've seen this used on masonry furnace doors my buddy does. The
>> sealing gasket was a mystery to me as it was all welted in rope - and
>> this grey material you mention is something I'd like to know more about.
>>
>> When you say the grey colored gasket stuff is this something the
>> glass supplier provides for you? or did you purchase this seperate
>> from McMaster or another similar industrial supplier? or is this
>> material a refractory supplier that you use?
>>
>> If you have time, I know you've posted the three glass types for fire
>> exposure before (but I'll be damned if I can find them). Being as
>> I'm being asked to do one of these screen & glass combo covers, would
>> you have that info again on the glasses?
>>
>> Thanks for any info you've got as someone that's done over 30 of
>> these sure has a lot more knowledge than me attempting my first glass
>> enclosure.
>>
>> I've also heard that using the same pintle with an L bracket hinge to
>> the rear screen allows both door units to swing out and be inside
>> each other when closed (screen in and glass out - then when open the
>> glass is against the outer hearth/chimney, and the screen is in use
>> or can be opened more than 90 degrees for ease of loading. Is this
>> how you approach this as well?
>>
>> I remember you sent me some nice picture of the hinges you made - but
>> it was for one set of doors - what have you done for swinging both
>> doors when requested? Of have you done just screen or glass and not
>> both?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
>> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 3:16 AM
>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>
>>
>> I mount my glass behind the doors in a frame of 1/8th by 1/2 inch
>> angle that is welded to the back of the doors on the two sides and
>> the bottom. The glass is held tight by fireplace gasket material,
>> the gray cloth stuff.
>> The
>> glass just slides into the frame behind the doors and his held snug
>> by the gasket fabric. Works great, I have built around 3 dozen fire
>> door sets this way with never a problem.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul" <forge at wi.rr.com>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>
>>
>>> Wayne Ackman wrote:
>>>> I am finishing a set of fireplace doors, I have the glass from the
>>>> cutters and it sets in with about 1/4" space around all sides, a
>>>> bit more than I wanted but.... I am wondering about the best way
>>>> to fix the glass in the frame. I could set straps across the
>>>> corners and screw them on.
>>>> Would allow the glass to be replaced if necessary, but would
>>>> detract from the design. Or I could caulk it in, which would help
>>>> with the space between the glass and the frame, but I don't know
>>>> what the heat would do to that. Nothing good, that I can imagine.
>>>> I am not coming up with an idea that I like so was wondering if you
>>>> all might...
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>> Don't know if it helps, but stained glass pieces installed in lead
>>> channels are locked in place with plaster of Paris. Might be a solution
>>> for your application. High temp silicones sounds like a good idea, but
>>> they are so PERMANENT. Better have every thing in place... the first
>>> time.
>>> Seems as if the largest problem would be the different expansion ratios
>>> of
>>> glass and metal. Some means of allowing for expansion would seem like a
>>> good idea...
>>> Paul Sperbeck
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>>
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>
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