[TheForge] glass doors

roger olsen erik at methow.com
Sat Jun 10 19:05:56 EDT 2006 

> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or which
> glass do you use in your doors?

I have only used tempered or Ceran,  Ceran is considerably more expensive. 
I let the client decide which type of glass they want to go with.,  I tell 
them what I can about each but recommend they call a fireplace shop and ask 
for themselves.  Ceran can cost as much as $400 just for the glass, tempered 
about $80, of course costs vary with size and if there is an arch or not.

> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain distance? -
> what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for expansion?

Yes,  whatever my width is from inside wall to inside wall of the two 
verticals of the 1/8th by 1/2 angle I have the glass cut 3/16th of an inch 
less,  this theoretically gives me 3/32 per side but that is if I was 
perfect in welding on the angle which I am far from.  With the gasket rope 
pushed in to the angle it all disappears and comes out very clean looking. 
There is no top to the angle iron frame so I only have to think about width.

Roger

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors


>
> Thanks Roger,  This is all helpful.
>
> Any in put on the glass?
>
> I seem to remember someone told me there was: tempered - which was the
> cheapest
>
> Then high heat - best as far as affordable direct fire exposure
>
> Then the ceramic - best but costly.
>
> Are these the three catagories of glass for fire exposure? ......Or which
> glass do you use in your doors?
>
> Do you leave the angles outside the glass perimeter a certain distance? -
> what I'm asking here is do you leave some kind of room for expansion?
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:30 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>
>
> when I slide the glass down the frame made by the 1/8 by 1/2 angle I 
> simply
> cut a piece of the gray stove gasket rope that is round on the back side 
> of
> the glass and under the angle,  it holds everything nice and tight tucked
> back in there.  They do make a gasket that is gutter shaped and you can 
> wrap
> around the edge of the glass but that holds the glass back and away from 
> the
> door frames and just does not look as tight and clean.
>
> In the tourist / vacation valley that I live there are only two masons, 
> both
> exclusively build Rumford of Rumford hybrid fireplaces,  this means the 
> fire
> cannot be burned with the doors shut.  I do whatever the client or 
> designer
> for architect  or builder wants and there are many options.  Most common 
> is
> a metal curtain that is mounted to the back side of the top horizontal of
> the subframe.  My hinges are designed so the doors can be lifted off if 
> one
> wishes or burned just swung open.
>
> Another option is fixed screen panels that can be slid in when the glass 
> is
> slid out.  I sandwich the screen between two pieces of 1/2 by 1/8th flat
> stock riveted to all four edges.
>
> Yes,  double hinges can be built for glass and screens,  I have never 
> built
> this kind,  have looked closely at maybe four different versions that I 
> have
> seen and must say I have never seen any of these that I thought came out
> nice, clean, and really looking right.....................just my opinion.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Roger
>
> Ps.  if you google Rumford fireplace you will find the home page for 
> Rumford
> with a link to photos of many hand made fireplace door sets.  I am not 
> sure
> if they are still there but some of mine had ended up there as well.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Sproul" <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:57 AM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] glass doors
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Roger, Thanks for the three sided slide in info on the angles - I've
>> seen this used on masonry furnace doors my buddy does. The sealing gasket
>> was a mystery to me as it was all welted in rope - and this grey material
>> you mention is something I'd like to know more about.
>>
>> When you say the grey colored gasket stuff is this something the glass
>> supplier provides for you? or did you purchase this seperate from 
>> McMaster
>> or another
>> similar industrial supplier? or is this material a refractory supplier
>> that
>> you use?
>>
>> If you have time, I know you've posted the three glass types for fire
>> exposure before (but I'll be damned if I can find them).  Being as I'm
>> being
>> asked to
>> do one of these screen & glass combo covers, would you have that info
>> again
>> on the glasses?
>>
>> Thanks for any info you've got as someone that's done over 30 of these
>> sure
>> has a lot more knowledge than me attempting my first glass enclosure.
>>
>> I've also heard that using the same pintle with an L bracket hinge to the
>> rear screen allows both door units to swing out and be inside each other
>> when closed (screen in and glass out - then when open the glass is 
>> against
>> the outer hearth/chimney, and the screen is in use or can be opened more
>> than 90 degrees for ease of loading.  Is this how you approach this as
>> well?
>>
>> I remember you sent me some nice picture of the hinges you made - but it
>> was
>> for one set of doors - what have you done for swinging both doors when
>> requested?  Of have you done just screen or glass and not both?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of roger olsen
>> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 3:16 AM
>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>
>>
>> I mount my glass behind the doors in a frame of 1/8th by 1/2 inch angle
>> that
>> is welded to the back of the doors on the two sides and the bottom.  The
>> glass is held tight by fireplace gasket material, the gray cloth stuff.
>> The
>> glass just slides into the frame behind the doors and his held snug by 
>> the
>> gasket fabric.  Works great,  I have built around 3 dozen fire door sets
>> this way with never a problem.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul" <forge at wi.rr.com>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] glass doors
>>
>>
>>> Wayne Ackman wrote:
>>>> I am finishing a set of fireplace doors,  I have the glass from the
>>>> cutters and it sets in with about 1/4" space around all sides, a bit
>>>> more
>>>> than I wanted but....  I am wondering about the best way to fix the
>>>> glass
>>>> in the frame.  I could set straps across the corners and screw them on.
>>>> Would allow the glass to be replaced if necessary,  but would detract
>>>> from the design.  Or I could caulk it in, which would help with the
>>>> space
>>>> between the glass and the frame,  but I don't know what the heat would
>>>> do
>>>> to that.  Nothing good, that I can imagine.  I am not coming up with an
>>>> idea that I like so was wondering if you all might...
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>> Don't know if it helps, but stained glass pieces installed in lead
>>> channels are locked in place with plaster of Paris. Might be a solution
>>> for your application. High temp silicones sounds like a good idea, but
>>> they are so PERMANENT. Better have every thing in place... the first
>>> time.
>>> Seems as if the largest problem would be the different expansion ratios
>>> of
>>> glass and metal. Some means of allowing for expansion would seem like a
>>> good idea...
>>> Paul Sperbeck
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>>
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>>
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>
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>
>
>
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