[TheForge] RE: TheForge Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18 A quick question?
Jeremy Wade
spurs4sale at cox.net
Thu Jan 5 20:13:42 EST 2006
Howdy All,
I guess that I am technologically inept. I have tried to find photos in
photoworks of some of you guys work but had no luck.
Help!
D.C.
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Subject: TheForge Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Starting up (Daniel Kretchmar)
2. Re: Starting up (John Husvar)
3. Re: Starting up (schade at acegroup.cc)
4. RE: RE: Starting up (Washington, Aubrey O.)
5. The perfect score? (Andrew Vida)
6. Re: Gas Forge Plans - a question (Andrew Vida)
7. Re: Starting up (Andrew Vida)
8. Re: Photo futzing... (Andrew Vida)
9. Re: The perfect score? (Dan Tull)
10. Re: The perfect score? (Jerry Frost)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:36:39 -0600
From: Daniel Kretchmar <dan at irontreeworks.com>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Starting up
To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <1136493399.43bd8357626c4 at vhost1.itasca.net>
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Oops, Guess I missed the first letter. The letter I responded to said
it was
from LrdThorolf at aol.com, which is an email from someone in the
SCA......I
think.
I guess that it was someone else's reply to Andrei's letter, and I
didn't read
the entire response.
Andrei, forget what I said about the SCA, but the stuff I said about the
book
"The New Edge of the Anvil" is still to the point.
Thanks Mike for pointing it out to me!
Daniel Kretchmar
www.irontreeworks.com
Traditional Woodworking and Blacksmithing
Daniel Kretchmar
www.irontreeworks.com
Traditional Woodworking and Blacksmithing
Quoting Jerry Frost <frosty at customcpu.com>:
> Welcome aboard Andrei:
>
> There's been plenty of good advice, some better than others.
>
> I'm with Phlip, perhaps I should say we're of the same mind. Do NOT
wait
> till you have all the right tools to get started. You'll be waiting
forever.
>
> Your minimum equipment list is:
>
> 1) A safe place to make a fire. Living in Romania you may not have
access to
>
> propane, living in a major city though you might. Let us know if you
have
> propane available we'll post all kinds of info for buying/making a
propane
> forge. Coal or charcoal is probably pretty common. If the city isn't
hard on
>
> smoke, coal is probably more economical. Charcoal on the other hand is
> pretty easy to make yourself and burns without smoke.
>
> A coal or charcoal forge is extremely easy to make and can be as
simple as a
>
> shallow hole scooped in the dirt with a piece of pipe for the air
blast. A
> small washtub lined with clay works really well. You'll need a deeper
fire
> for charcoal than coal but this is a small detail.
>
> 2) Something to beat against. An anvil is preferable but almost
anything
> heavy and hard enough can serve. Probably the most common improvised
anvil
> is a length of rail road rail. My best ever improvised anvil was a
large
> axel of some sort buried with the wheel flange up at a good working
height.
> In a pinch a boulder will serve.
>
> 3) Something to beat with. Hammers from 1-3lbs 500-1500gms. I strongly
> disagree with air hammering. Do NOT just swing a hammer like you're
> hammering unless you actually hit something! This will cause all kinds
of
> wrist, elbow and shoulder problems down the road. Set a piece of wood
at a
> proper working height and hammer on it. Proper warm up and exercising
is
> important but don't hurt yourself doing it.
>
> 4) Something to hold short work with, tongs, pliers, vise grips or
even a
> split stick will work. I recommend making a couple pair of tongs as
learning
>
> projects. Heck, make tongs all your life, you can sell them. <grin>
>
> 5) Finding stock to work with is something I can't help you with.
You'll
> have to scrounge, buy or deal for what's available to you.
>
> Tell us a bit more about what you'd like to make and we'll be able to
be
> more specific.
>
> Ries is right on the money concerning reading material. Alexander
Weygers
> book "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" is my first recommendation.
Especially
>
> for those who'll have to improvise a lot.
>
> Till you have the right tools just build a fire and beat on some hot
steel
> with a hammer. You'll learn more than you think.
>
> Good luck, have fun, play safe.
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrei Pandelescu" <APandelescu at ubisoft.ro>
>
> > Good day,
> >
> > I am reading on posts here for about half a year or so, and since
then
> > managed to get a more "rewarding" job so I think I might be in the
> > position
> > to actually doing something instead of just reading.
> >
> > In order to get started properly , and to take full advantage of
this
> > mailing list, I'd like to ask the more experienced members a few
details
> > first, if you don't mind spending a few time to help a young wannabe
> > blacksmith start his thing.
> >
> > 1. What tools do I need? Numbers, details...
> > 2. What type of anvil should I get?
> > 3. Where can I find patterns for what I am supposed to do?
> > 4. What do I need to make a forge or could I replace that with
something
> > else for starters?
> > 5. Where can materials be bought?
> > 6. Some books or other kind of reference about materials, treatment
and
> > shaping.
> >
> > I don't know if this is and exhaustive list of questions, if you
think I
> > missed some details please - fill them up :)
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your patience and your time.
> >
> > Have a nice day!
> > Andrei
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:23:46 -0500
From: John Husvar <jhusvar at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Starting up
To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <9FB0C8D7-EBD7-4FAA-BB0D-2C7E75F8A96E at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On Jan 5, 2006, at 2:56 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
> Welcome aboard Andrei:
>
> There's been plenty of good advice, some better than others.
And none of it so far really bad at all. :)
Here's my 2 cents. (or the equivalent minor sum in Romania)
>
> A coal or charcoal forge is extremely easy to make and can be as
> simple as a shallow hole scooped in the dirt with a piece of pipe
> for the air blast. A small washtub lined with clay works really
> well. You'll need a deeper fire for charcoal than coal but this is
> a small detail.
Any old heat source will do in an emergency: Having no way to heat
and beat iron is an emergency. I know one man who started by heating
small pieces of steel on his electric stove burners. What he used for
an anvil I don't know, but he made some exquisite small pieces.
>
> 2) Something to beat against. An anvil is preferable but almost
> anything heavy and hard enough can serve. Probably the most common
> improvised anvil is a length of rail road rail. My best ever
> improvised anvil was a large axel of some sort buried with the
> wheel flange up at a good working height. In a pinch a boulder will
> serve.
Literally any piece of flat, hard, heavy material will do; a block of
steel, a well supported granite slab, a big rock, a hunk of lead.
(OK, _not_ the lead.:)
The main thing is: Don't wait to start until you have all the right
tools. The only way you'll ever have _all_ the right tools is to make
your own -- and you'll find yourself doing that more often than
you'll ever think.
The most important tools are between your ears and at the end of your
arms. Once you get a piece of material moving, you will progress.
Then you will get addicted. Then you can begin to make a small
fortune, but only if you start with a large one. :)
Don't expect perfection at the beginning. Don't even expect good. If
you don't ruin quite a few attempts at projects, you're not playing
enough. There's not one of us on this list who does not have a fairly
large I-won't-try-that-that-way-again pile somewhere around the shop.
Some of the contents get reused on other projects, some go to the
dump, and some you fix and end up doing them right after all.
If I had a dollar for every time I've thrown down the hammer and quit
smithing, I'd have that large fortune, by the way.
One of the better smithing lessons is to get yourself into trouble
and have to figure your way out of it. I still do it often. Expertise
isn't never making mistakes: It's learning how to fix them before you
have to start over. _That_ teaches you to mentally work through a
project before you start hitting the iron.
Hint: Quite often, you must do what you think is the finish work first!
I used to tell one of my students: "I didn't say: Do it well: I
said: Do it. Do it many times. Well will come, probably while you're
not looking." <OB Zen content for our own Demon Buddha>
Good hammering!
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:50:01 -0600
From: schade at acegroup.cc
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Starting up
To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <f8352ba5759c88af39420639ea767e6a at acegroup.cc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:56 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
> Welcome aboard Andrei:
>
>
it seems to me the Andrei question is kind of a coal to newcastle
thing. I think Romania is still farming with horses. Gotta be way more
real blacksmiths there than here.
Bob
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:12:23 -0600
From: "Washington, Aubrey O." <awashington at ou.edu>
Subject: RE: [TheForge] RE: Starting up
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID:
<2E392E1E4AF06D46B1720012FF4E20700393EF87 at XMAIL1.sooner.net.ou.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Andrei,
Welcome to the list and to smithing for fun. Please let us know how
your visit to the village blacksmith goes. Even if he doesn't have time
to teach you the tricks of the trade, he may let you just stand around
an watch him work. If he likes you, he might answer your questions. If
he lets you come back the next weekend, he may even let you hand him
stuff while he works. You never know where it could lead.
Aubrey
________________________________
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net on behalf of Andrei Pandelescu
Sent: Thu 1/5/2006 8:39 AM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [TheForge] RE: Starting up
First of all great many thanks for your help ,
Sadly I am living in Romania, moreover in downtown Bucharest (which is
the
capital) so the first real blacksmith I can find is some hefty
kilometers
away in a village that still holds one , and probably working for a
profit
and less willing to spend time teaching me the tricks of the trade. I
will
try this option however probably in week-ends.
I will look for ABANA site and check on local meetings - hope something
comes up.
And yea , as you said I think I better start practicing the hammer swing
,
as I am not exactly the "strong" type - better build some power in that
mouse/keyboard hand :)
Thanks a lot - I will continue to brag about my progress here ,
Good day to you all,
Andrei
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___________
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:18:35 -0500
From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>
Subject: [TheForge] The perfect score?
To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <43BD9B3B.3080002 at netlabs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Well, today takes the cake, I think. One of our friends is letting us
have a perfect Nazel 3B if we'll haul it away.
I almost crapped my pants. Seriously.
-Andy
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:25:23 -0500
From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Gas Forge Plans - a question
To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <43BD9CD3.60507 at netlabs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Bruce Freeman wrote:
> Spalling is usually caused by volatile components in the brick. Get
these hot enough and they explode into vapor.
>
> The classic volatile componet is water, but carbonate (i.e., portland
cement) is another.
>
> Dry your bricks, firebricks, castable refractory, etc., etc.,
THOROUGHLY before firing your forge to forging heat. One way to do this
is by building a wood fire inside the forge, but if you can control your
propane burner at a low heat, that works too.
>
> The suggestion I've heard is to bring the forge to a dull red heat -
SLOWLY. I doubt that temperature is really necessary.
With ceramics, there is a period called "water smoke" where the
kiln is
left open and the elements fired to slowly raise the temperature to a
bit under 300* F. By the time it gets to that temperature one is well
assured that all moisture has been removed. If you don't do this, you
risk dunting or blowing the work (ceramist-speak for cracking and
spalling). A slow rise to 300* will guarantee all moisture is gone,
with the emphasis on SLOW, as Bruce put it.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:28:55 -0500
From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Starting up
To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <43BD9DA7.6020205 at netlabs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Adam Whiteson wrote:
> Andrei
>
> You need:
>
> Cross pein hammer 2#-3# Go as SMALL as you can
>
> Anvil ideally 200# - 250# but anything over 100# is useful
If he can get one easily and cheaply, I'd agree, but otherwise I
would
go for one around 125#, which is an ideal size for a first anvil. It is
large enough to take seriously and small enough to be portable. Also,
larger anvils can be a hindrance to beginners who typically start off
with smaller work. I find smaller examples to be better suited to
smaller work, but that may just be me.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:31:41 -0500
From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Photo futzing...
To: Bob Ehrenberger <eforge at centurytel.net>, Sponsored by ABANA
<theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <43BD9E4D.5060000 at netlabs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Bob Ehrenberger wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Nice job on the anvil. I think the canvis is too busy and detracts
from the
> image.
>
I agree, but cannot yet figure out how to get all that noise
out.
DrawPlus is a good package (especially since it is free), but is missing
some things, or has them in places where I can't seem to find them. An
eraser would be nice, as would a cropping tool. AFAICS there is only a
tool for adding crop marks. I have not yet been able to actually crop
an image.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:32:03 -0500
From: "Dan Tull" <dantull at numail.org>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] The perfect score?
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <00f401c61247$e6f9daf0$ca4c0f48 at yourm3vezyx8af>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
When you get old, that's not a joke, Andy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: [TheForge] The perfect score?
> Well, today takes the cake, I think. One of our friends is letting us
> have a perfect Nazel 3B if we'll haul it away.
>
> I almost crapped my pants. Seriously.
>
> -Andy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:11:35 -0900
From: "Jerry Frost" <frosty at customcpu.com>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] The perfect score?
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <01b501c6124d$60451640$6501a8c0 at albatross>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Ayup. That's a score alright.
I'm frankly speachless or are you going to tell us it's at the bottom of
a
flooded mine or something that'd make giving it away make sense.
Congrats.
Frosty
-------------------------------
If it ain't forged
it ain't real.
Wrought iron is.
The FrostWorks
Meadow Lakes, AK.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
> Well, today takes the cake, I think. One of our friends is letting us
> have a perfect Nazel 3B if we'll haul it away.
>
> I almost crapped my pants. Seriously.
>
> -Andy
>
------------------------------
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