[TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Thu Feb 23 14:26:41 EST 2006

OK. What do you want to know?!?

The HME forge is natural gas, but I believe propane verions are available.
By the way, propane is readily available here in the UK, but people seem to
like butane too. My Dad uses propane as a fuel on his boat because he uses
it in the winter and butane doesn't work too well at low temps. We get both
of these gases in returnable cylinders for which an initial deposit is
payable, but the cylinder remains the property of the gas company, thus
making it a bit of a non-starter as a forge shell!

The tube forge heats up quicker because it has less thermal mass, I suppose.

The chip forge is blown, and quite noisy; there seems to be a high pitched
sound that is caused by the air being forced through the small gaps between
the chips. After a long session my ears ring a bit, but I can't bring myself
to wear hearing protection because of the sweat factor. Suppose I could use
plugs...

I actually quite like the chip forge, but it's not as flexible as a coke one
because you can't really change the fire size by raking it out and turning
up the air. In fact, the air supply is fixed and the gas has a valve to vary
the flow rate. You can, of course, put a wider range of things in it and
build the chips over whatever you are trying to heat, like a coke forge.

The ceramic chip forge gets hot enough to burn steel, but I've never forge
welded with it.

Perhaps I should run them both side by side and do some comparative tests?

Do you think my 3/4" burner could run a ceramic chip forge off a propane
cylinder?

Any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer.

Rich.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> Sent: 23 February 2006 04:15
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> 
> 
> Thanks; that was a helpful description. I assume the forge is 
> running on 
> natural gas too. It is all excellent. I'm just a greedy guy, 
> and always want 
> more from a tool. However, there is a lot to be said for the 
> stuff that's 
> already out there on the used tool market--in England. If we 
> Yanks had an 
> inexpensive way to ship it here, there wouldn't be any left  
> for you guys 
> :-)
> 
> You know that my own interest is pretty off center from what 
> most here want 
> to do with them. Since you have built your own portable tube 
> forge, and also 
> use a chip forge, I can't think of anyone better placed to 
> answer practical 
> questions about the differences. How about a little more 
> writing from you on 
> this subject?
> Mike P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rich Maynard" <rich at maynard.org.uk>
> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> 
> 
> The HME ceramic chip forge that I have is much simpler than 
> that. Combustion seems to happen in and around the chips, and 
> when first lit there is a blue flame visible above the chips.
> 
> Once it's going, however, and the chips are glowing 
> orange/white there is no flame left at all; the gas seems to 
> burn completely within the very hot chips.
> 
> Rich
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> > Sent: 22 February 2006 18:14
> > To: Sponsored by ABANA
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> >
> >
> > Chris K,
> > You are not understanding that the forge has a separate 
> fire box below 
> > the ceramic media, with a separating layer of cut kiln shelves
> > turned on edge,
> > and acting as a support grate. The grate completely separates
> > the flame area
> > from the ceramic media--giving as much space as you need for
> > the flame to
> > filter through the media, and for buoyancy to more than 
> overcome back
> > pressure. It also allows the "flame box" to be dual walled,
> > with a row of
> > holes in the inner walls above the ceramic grate, and two
> > outer holes kept
> > low and placed on either side of the burner; outer holes to
> > be closed with
> > movable chokes until the fire box heats up. Thus, instead of
> > throwing away
> > excess energy, while complicating the job of insulating the
> > forge, most of
> > it is recycled. Also, the superheated air does not impact the
> > burner, as
> > schemes for mixing heated air in the burner always do.
> > Instead, the burner
> > is actually cooled somewhat by incoming air.
> >
> > Now you also know that it can be called a recuperative 
> forge, and why 
> > any burner will likely work as well as any other burner in it
> > (secondary flames
> > becoming a non-issue in this design). So, do my statements
> > about sometimes
> > removing the media and using the "forge" in various other
> > configurations
> > make more sense? I also recommend a lower layer of 1 1/2"
> > refractory balls
> > for thermal loading and an upper layer of semi-hollow clay balls for
> > insulation and ease of parts movement. Construction details
> > like installing
> > burner collars, and how to handle perlite insulation or
> > insulating bricks
> > are already covered pretty thoroughly in Gas Burners, in the
> > forge cart
> > chapter. All you would do is put side walls on the cart bed,
> > build a dual
> > wall chamber with a top grate, and move the burner position
> > from bottom to
> > end. For that matter, the burner doesn't have to be moved, it
> > would just be
> > a more even heat that way. So, people who have already built
> > the forge cart
> > don't have very much left to do.
> >
> > For those who haven't built the cart already, I'd recommend 
> building 
> > the chip forge as a separate heating unit that can be used 
> with other
> > appliances, like kilns for instance (a kiln on a cart could
> > start getting
> > pretty tall :)
> >
> > Mike P.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Kilpatrick" <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> >
> >
> > Normally aspirated with the clay media interfering with the flame?  
> > Maybe I am not understanding how this works, but I imagine a flame
> > coming up through
> > the chips which offer back pressure and make a coned flame 
> impossible.
> >
> > What am I not understanding?
> >
> > Chris K
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mike Porter" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>
> > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> > > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:45:26 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris K,
> > > It can run fan blown or naturally aspirated. Either way, 
> it doesn't 
> > > make smoke. Mike P.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kilpatrick" 
> > > <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
> > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >      I am assuming forced air on these, yes?
> > >
> > > -Chris K.
> > >
> > > p.s.:  How does this differ from my forge that glows and
> > heats through
> > > convection, conduction and radiation?
> > >
> > >
> > >
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