[TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Tue Feb 21 18:23:09 EST 2006

Jeff,
Yes, I'm thinking of the burner and chip bed as part of a basic heating 
unit. The "chips," which may be any ceramic media, have only one purpose, 
and that is to exchange and hold the heat from a flame in another form. This 
allows thermal loading which is always handy if you're in a hurry to heat 
something. They also allow more effective heat transfer to the work than a 
straight gas forge (radiation, convection, conduction) Finally, they provide 
a very convenient method of easily controlling a pretty exacting preheat for 
objects being gas welded or brazed (which brings us to my personal agenda 
for these forges; they double as very effective brazing hearths). However, 
the media is contained within a pretty standard and recognizable structure.

Now, just for fun, let's remove the chips completely. What do we have left? 
The whole structure minus some media. O.K., now lets put some form of 
insulated cowling (with an exhaust exit) over this empty structure. Now we 
have an insulated and heated box. That is one way of describing a kiln. It 
is also one way of describing a heat treat oven. Make the box removable, put 
the exhaust in its top, set a crucible in its center, and it can be 
described as a crucible furnace. With exhausts in opposite sides of the box, 
it is recognizably a tunnel forge. Can it really be a heat treat oven? That 
is merely a matter of adding a pyrometer and controls. The operational words 
are open-ended-engineering. As to weenie roasting, you'd need a lot of 
hungry mouths to keep up with the output.

You also asked "...but are you saying that all these are easily done by one 
furnace? Or one burner? (i.e., taking the same chip bed "burner assembly" 
from one forge "shell" to a big ceramic kiln "shell". Easily is not a word I 
used; it is completely subjective. What I will say is that it is practical. 
If you wanted a number of different heating appliances, all or most of which 
would be operated from a gas flame, why build their base units over and 
over? Why use a different burner for each of them? Who has that kind of 
space, time, and money to waste? Even addressing the most extreme example of 
a "big ceramic kiln shell," You can find shells made out of rigidized 
ceramic fiber supported by construction wire frames, that can be dissembled 
and stored away in a shed being built and used in England right now. Using 
an existing forge base unit would only make this easier.

In Gas Burners I gave directions for building a forge cart that was also a 
multi-use heating tool, but the cart's main purpose was as a support surface 
for forges and hot work (silver brazing, etc.). Doubling as a base for 
occasional special purpose heating jobs was a secondary mission. If you 
begin with a ceramic chip forge, your equipment has already crossed that 
line, so why not lean into the idea and make accessories for it that will 
allow you to do any other heating job you wish? The great thing about open 
ended engineering is that you don't have to build the accessories until you 
need them, so in that sense, yes it is easy. Does all this mean I think 
these forges are perfect? There ain't no such animal. Personally, I can see 
one big flaw in them right at the get-go: They seem custom made for using 
just about any kind of burner, and using it well.That's not a comforting 
thought from my perspective.

For chip media, the more ideas the merrier. My two favorites thus far are 
"just roll clay balls in your hands," and use ceramic tumbling nuggets. 
Quite a difference between them, but both are looking to apply the KISS 
formula in their own ways. As to the burner, I never discourage burner 
experiments :-)))
Mike P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeffrey Polaski" <jeff.polaski at rgs.uci.edu>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

> They do two jobs just to start with, but the nature of their
> construction allows many configurations: Brazing hearth; forge;
> furnace; kiln; heat treat oven; and who knows what else?
Weenie Roaster? ;-)

Seriously though, I'm curious about the many uses you have listed here.
It seems like you're thinking of the chip bed as a part of the burner,
and it has me a little confused. I'm not sure how a chip bed furnace
would make a good kiln or heat treat oven.

I'm probably not thinking of this very well, but are you saying that all
these are easily done by one furnace? Or one burner? (i.e., taking the
same chip bed "burner assembly" from one forge "shell" to a big ceramic
kiln "shell".

Oh, by the way I had a couple of other ideas for making round beads out
of refractory. I was thinking if the melon baller didn't work on the
ramable refractory I have, then maybe I could make a mold. It would be
like a spring swedge, but with a hinge to keep everything in alignment.
Any old hinge should work. Just take a marble and grease it up, and
stick it half way down in some epoxy to make half of the mold. I'd just
make it out of the two-part plumbers epoxy at Home Depot.

If they're available, I'd think bullet molds for black powder muskets
might work pretty well, too.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but I had some notes for an
inexpensive recuperative forge using parts from Home Depot. The main
thing was to run your burner through some larger black iron pipe, just
like one of the fancier recuperative forges. It's not a brilliant design
or any thing, I just thought it would be a lot easier to use stuff from
HD, rather than a bunch of custom-fabricated sheet metal and parts. One
drawback (for some) - there is a little welding (to join the burner
through a larger piece of pipe). I have all the parts and I'm going to
start on it soon. My life's been really busy for the last year or so...
Once I get it going, I'll let you all know how it's going.

Jeff Polaski
Research and Graduate Studies Webmaster
University of California, Irvine
http://www.rgs.uci.edu/
949.824.6363

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:01 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Rick
Flame Engineering at least did export their equipment. There was an
outfit
(out of AZ I think) that was selling it two years ago. However, their
prices
were astronomical, and as I said in another post, the English equipment
is
pretty underwhelming by nature. I am not getting the media at all,
presently. In the summer of 2004 Skipjack Press decided it was
interested in
a book on diffusion joining (had already been looking over brazing
equipment
for months). As Flame Engineering was interested in using my burner
design
to update their equipment for the USA market. we corresponded for a
while
(once they found out that the burners could be freely used by anyone);
didn't come to much in the end.

Meantime, I had been brainstorming brazing hearths and ceramic chip
forges.
There were some emails traded back and forth on that subject right here.
At
that time Jeff Polaski suggested using a melon ball cutter to form clay
balls as the media (it's in my notes). I had the idea for a regenerative

firebox clear back then, but just sat on it. Why? Because I was being
greedy, that's why! People just don't seem to 'get it' about the
potential
of ceramic chip forges. They do two jobs just to start with, but the
nature
of their construction allows many configurations: Brazing hearth; forge;

furnace; kiln; heat treat oven; and who knows what else? Done properly,
they
are the ultimate example of open ended engineering. There ya go, you're
up
to speed now. Well, I did have some other ideas about brazing hearths
that
are still being hatched, but you're gonna have to buy the book to see
them
:)
Mike P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Korinek" <rickkorinek at verizon.net>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

> Michael,
> I contacted one of the English Mfgrs last summer.  They do not make an
> export version because of electric power standards compatibility.
They
> would ship/sell the ceramic media.  I did not pursue this further.
>
> Where are you getting the media?
>
> I am very interested in your experience with this combustion approach.
>
> -Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Michael Horgan
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:36 PM
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>
> Some years ago I made a gas forge for use at the Renaissance  Faire,
> hiding the hot box under some black lava rock. It worked pretty well
> , at least as a nail forge, but you could only heat one end of the
> bar, with no pass through. Last year we used a Whisper Mama, tucked
> away in a faux-brick forge.  Still pretty obviously a gas hotbox.  I
> wanted a coal or charcoal fire, but the Faire site, regulated by the
> Army Corps of Engineers and the local county Fire Inspectors wouldn't
> allow the "Open Fire"
>
> This year we are putting together a ceramic chip forge, basically a
> gas burner feeding the bottom of a pile of heat resistant
> "rocks."  I've been looking at the past postings on the forge, and
> talking off list with Paul Boulay , Rex Price, Frosty and Mike
> Porter, about the ins and outs, advantages and disadvantages of this
> type of forge. Whether it can be made to work with a venturi burner
> or if a blower is needed, what type of media to use  for best heat
> transfer to your steel, and so on. I've also been looking at the
> "expensive" commercial versions available in England as used in the
> school systems,as shown in the graphics page here,  and some slightly
> different types available in Germany,
>
http://www.angele-shop.com/catalog/index.php?cName=gas-forges-gasforges
.
>
> There have been some great ideas pop up, not to mention the usual
> kludges I'm apt to come up with. <GRIN>
>
> Mikie in particular has a great idea for a recuperative forge that
> looks great for a commercial forging station, if perhaps a bit more
> than I was looking to do as a portable forge at the Faire
>
> Seems like there's some interest in this, so I'll be summarizing in
> later messages some of the stuff we've been talking about, as well as
> the results from some experimentation I'm doing.  I've got some
> refractory media due in this weekend so I can try to produce some
> results to share.
>
>
> Michael D. Horgan , lughaid at earthlink.net
> http://members.aol.com/lughaid/
> posting from
>  A BRAZEN FORGERY
> Blacksmithing and Metalwork
> Claremont, Ca.
>
>
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