[TheForge] Making Ferric Chloride Revisited - Correction

[Bruce Freeman]

Bill, 
The iron in rust (Fe2O3) is more higly oxidized than the iron in scale
(FeO), and is therefore a more powerful oxidizing agent.  Think of it as
having more potential energy - "further to fall" to get back to iron
metal.  However, reaction speeds sometimes don't relate well to
potential energy.  Kinda like having a lot of obstructions in the way,
so the fall never really gets going.
Bruce
NJ

>>> newky2 at dejazzd.com 11/30/2006 9:24 PM >>>
Correction, The HCL  plus Rust has a stronger reaction with copper than
the
HCL plus Forge Scale (which has some reaction)  Maybe someone who
knows
which oxides rust and forge scale are can explain this.

Bill

-----Original (Corrected)Message----- 
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of April & Bill
Clemens
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:03 PM
To: 'Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: [TheForge] Making Ferric Chloride Revisited

I decided to take the experimental approach.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_chloride 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(II)_chloride 
http://www.sci-spot.com/Chemistry/liqimag.htm(an interesting article
on
making ferrofluids)


1.  HCL (muratic acid) plus Iron(Steel Wool) 

Resulted in a very active reaction and a yellow green liquid (ferrous
chloride - FeCl2) according to the sources I previously noted.

2.  HCL (muratic acid) plus Forge Scale

and

3.  HCL (muratic acid) plus Rust 

Both resulted in a Reddish Liquid that had yellow appearance where it
wetted
the sides of the container when swirled.  Seems to confirm the formula
I
previously posted:

Ferric Oxide plus HCL results in Ferrous Chloride and Ferric Chloride 

Fe3O4 plus 8HCL yields  FeCl2 plus 2FeCl3 plus 4H2O

I also added steel wool to Ferric Chloride and it turned yellow green
and
eventually would not react with additional steel wool added.

Finally I tested each fluid by putting a piece of bare copper wire into
each
and also into straight Ferric Chloride,  1 to 4  diluted  Ferric
Chloride,
and HCL

The results were as suspected:

 No reaction in HCL although the wire above the liquid line did
tarnish
(dark brown/black)

HCL plus Steel Wool - no noticeable reaction

HCL plus forge scale - some reaction with copper 

HCL plus rust  - more reaction similar to Diluted Ferric Chloride

Diluted Ferric Chloride - very apparent step/reduction  in wire size
below
liquid level

Ferric Chloride - most reaction dissolved about  1/2 the wire diameter


Ferric Chloride with steel wool added til no more absorbed - No
noticeable
reaction


Conclusion:  Cleaning Rusty and Forge Scaled Iron in HCL(Muratic Acid)
will
result in a solution of 2 parts Ferric Chloride(Red Liquid) and one
Part
Ferrous Chloride(Yellow Green Liquid)  The concentration of Ferric
Chloride
will be reduced by the length of time that clean iron is left in the
liquid
converting the Ferric Chloride to Ferrous Chloride.  

My wife just told me I need to put my chemistry set away before I go to
bed
so that's all for now...

Bill















 



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