[TheForge] FAQ

[Mike Porter]

Never been to Travel Town (never even knew of it :) It is pretty obvious we
"went to the same school," just in different shops; same kind of instructor
though. I will wait for one week to see if there is any real interest in the
scroll bender offer, or if the subject should be closed.
Mky

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Frost
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:58 AM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] FAQ

I have a left handed clinker sifter around here somewhere I could let go of 
for reasonable. Let me know if you want to see pictures, I have the manual 
too. <grin>

Interesting. I got my introduction to turning scrolls on a bender at Olive 
Vista jr. high school. Then much to my distaste discovered it was a required

project in heavy metal 1 at Sylmar High. We had a smallish chandalier job in

metal shop requiring a number of different scrolls in matching sets. The 
stock was 1/4" rnd. and 1/8" x 1/2" & 1/8" x 3/4" strip. The instructor 
showed us how to turn them on the bender, anvil and with scrolling wrenches.

For this run the bender was way slower. The scrolls were all turned cold.

I've never used an automatic bender, they've all been manual Hossfelds with 
appropriate dies and I haven't used a manual bender since high school. If I 
had a few hundred or thousand scrolls to turn I'd get the machine and finish

them naturally. I'm not hard wired to doing things by hand as long as I 
don't have to compromise . . . Much. I'll get a Hossfeld or similar for the 
shop just not(probably) for turning scrolls.

Probably the suckiest thing about going pro after being a hobbiest is the 
reality check. This being the BIG question/choice. Do you want to actually 
make a living or do you want to hold to your "artistic, historic, 
traditional, or whatever" principles?

I know what the choice to go pro means, Dad made sure of that, by word and 
action. I grew up in a metal spinning shop in southern California and 
learned quick where principle stood when the choice was keeping the doors 
open and food on the table.

There are of course principles I won't compromise on, safety being #1. but 
my personal preferences? HAH!

Oh yeah, I remember when Knott's Berry Farm had several hundred acres of 
berries and the "World's Largest Doll House Collection!!!" right behind the 
roadside stand.

Ever been to Travel Town?

Small world eh?

Frosty
-------------------------------
If it ain't forged
it ain't real.
Wrought iron is.
The FrostWorks

Meadow Lakes, AK.

http://www.artmetalradio.com/



From: "Mike Porter" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>


> Frosty,
> Re: "Re: D. Neither. No. Go sift clinker."
> Go sift clinker? LOL big time; wish I'd said that :-)
>
> You wrote:
> "I love scrolls, hate bender turned scrolls and can turn one by hand about
> as
> fast as the machine can. One thing wrong with the benders is the dies
> usually suck. Of course the biggest sin of bender turned scrolls is the
> result of the fabricator NOT finishing the job."
>
> OK, we both love scrolls and could very well have diametrically opposing
> views on how to make them. My own background comes from growing up in
> Southern California ornamental iron shops. We did all scrollwork cold, and
> while those same shops turned out the best work in Orange County at that
> time (late fifties through the sixties), I had already seen better 
> examples
> of cold scrollwork. Knotts Berry Farm, an amusement center in Buena Park,
> used to have (may still but not sure) incredible examples of first rate
> heavy 'Spanish' ironwork. It was supposedly all cold worked, but cold 
> worked
> German style; monster air hammers, etc.
>
> I have used RAM scroll benders, which are the only commercially made units
> worth anything IMHO. Unfortunately, the inventor's patent ran out in the
> sixties and imitators undercut his prices, so he retired. There is still a
> comparable machine built today, but at a laughably high price and built 
> for
> column scrolls, which are out of date. Every other commercial scroll 
> bender,
> including today's German built offerings, makes me giggle. I was also
> fortunate enough to be taught to built and use vertical hand scroll 
> benders
> for miniature scrolls used in candle holders and chandeliers. The largest
> single order was eleven hundred candle holders containing eight scrolled
> ends each, along with other decorations. It was strictly commercial work,
> not art, but it had to be good quality.
>
> Where does art end and everything else begin? Some say it is in the heart 
> of
> the craftsman, and others make up all kinds of rules (which they 
> themselves
> tend to fudge in private). My own theory is more ruthless of course. If 
> the
> customer's hand shakes with excitement when reaching for the checkbook, or
> if the customer looks at the work and immediately starts negotiating price
> (this ploy usually includes faintly disparaging remarks carefully kept 
> below
> the craftsman's irritation level, but designed to mask their excitement)
> confidence in your work can't be very far from the mark.
>
> Why not take the best of both worlds, and combine hot work with better
> fixtures? Scrollwork is hot formed around crude scroll forms by most 
> smiths.
> Yes, it can be completely worked by hand by anyone who has mastered the
> techniques, but my own concern always lies with shortening the learning
> curve for novices. If you want to continue the discussion, and if there is

> a
> healthy interest in it, I'm willing to release my book notes on this
> subject, and pursue the best methods of building scroll benders on-group. 
> It
> could then end up as part of the group's FAQ section, with all viewpoints
> represented in an educational manner. If not, that's OK too :)
> Mikey
>

_______________________________________________
Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
theforge mail list group photo site is
http://www.photoaccess.com
Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
password:  anvil
___________