[TheForge] Bridge Crane etc.
Jonathan Nedbor
jonned at hvc.rr.com
Tue Sep 27 19:27:13 EDT 2005
I would like a bridge crane for the coverage it offers, as it gets to every
corner of the shop. Problem is finding a used one when you need one. How
many times have we all heard "oh you should have been here a week ago......"
If you build 2 or 3 jib cranes you can stagger them to cover most of the
shop floor. They are cheaper and easier to build, but not as convenient.
A friend of mine keeps telling me to go with a fork lift with an extended
lift. These can be very useful, if you have the room for one in the shop.
One great thing about the fork lift is that it can move loads in and out of
the shop.
Jonathan
----- Original Message -----
From: <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>
To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:44 PM
Subject: TheForge Digest, Vol 20, Issue 33
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Fw: [TheForge] Gas forge Question (Steven.Walker at its.state.ms.us)
> 2. Re: bridge crane (Ries Niemi)
> 3. RE: Gas forge Question (Grover Richardson)
> 4. RE: Gas forge Question (Justin Fellenz)
> 5. Re: bridge crane (Justin Fellenz)
> 6. RE: bridge crane (Kevin D)
> 7. RE: bridge crane (Kevin D)
> 8. Re: Gas forge Question (Jerry Frost)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:00:45 -0500
> From: Steven.Walker at its.state.ms.us
> Subject: Fw: [TheForge] Gas forge Question
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID:
> <OFEDEF032C.8CCEEB55-ON86257089.00570E64-86257089.0057F2B0 at dits.state.ms.us>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>>I'd like to point out that we often like to overbuild stuff, forges being
> no
>>exception.
>
> That's another reason I built mine with a freon tank instead of a propane
> tank.....the freon tank I had was much lighter a propane tank because it's
> constructed from a smaller guage sheet. Not sure what guage it is but
> it's
> pretty thin.
>
> Walker
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:08:03 -0700
> From: Ries Niemi <rniemi at fidalgo.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] bridge crane
> To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <1ba51b936d357fc4cf09038e7f6f0818 at fidalgo.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> Justin is thinking of a jib crane- a swinging arm, which the chainfall
> or hoist can roll back and forth on, giving you a circular coverage.
> Usually these are limited to about a half ton, unless they are really
> stout.
>
> A real bridge crane has elevated tracks on both sides of the shop, and
> a beam that rolls along these tracks, and then a hoist that rolls
> across this beam, giving you x-y axis coverage of the whole shop.
>
> The biggest factor, in terms of weight, and cost, is how heavy an
> object do you need to lift?
> If you are thinking 1 ton or less, you could use a 6" to 10" I beam,
> depending on span, and buy some trolleys from Jet or somebody similar,
> and just yank it around with a rope hanging down.
> I was just in a shop of a blacksmith near tacoma who had a homebuilt
> system like this- probably good for around 1000lbs or 1500lbs max, as
> it was only about an 8" I beam. He could not use it to move his 300lb
> chambersburg in and out.
>
> There are loads and loads of used bridge cranes out there, but they
> usually start at about 3 ton and go up from there- and used, from a
> dealer, figure 5 grand or up. This would include a motorised trolley
> for the hoist, and motorised trolleys for the beam, so the whole thing
> powered where you wanted.
>
> Or you might find a deal on one at an auction. But since the main
> component is big steel beams, scrap value alone for a 30x40 ft setup,
> including posts, is gonna be a few grand alone, and a motorised 3 ton
> hoist is worth something too.
>
> ries
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:11:00 -0400
> From: "Grover Richardson" <grover.richardson at gtri.gatech.edu>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Gas forge Question
> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <001b01c5c386$70122b00$2c0a670a at atasad.ccrf>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I make mine out of 8 pound kaowool, surrounded by air conditioning duct.
> Sheet metal screws hold it together. For travelling, I place it in a 5
> gallon sheetrock mud bucket.
>
>>*>-----Original Message-----
>>*>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>*>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>>*>Steven.Walker at its.state.ms.us
>>*>Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:01 PM
>>*>To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
>>*>Subject: Fw: [TheForge] Gas forge Question
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>>I'd like to point out that we often like to overbuild stuff, forges
>>*>>being
>>*>no
>>*>>exception.
>>*>
>>*>That's another reason I built mine with a freon tank instead
>>*>of a propane tank.....the freon tank I had was much lighter
>>*>a propane tank because it's constructed from a smaller guage
>>*>sheet. Not sure what guage it is but it's pretty thin.
>>*>
>>*>Walker
>>*>
>>*>_______________________________________________
>>*>Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>>*>>*>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>*>theforge
>>*>mail list group photo site is http://www.photoaccess.com
>>*>Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>*>password: anvil
>>*>___________
>>*>
>>*>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:21:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Justin Fellenz <sunironworks at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Gas forge Question
> To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <20050927172110.45849.qmail at web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I made mine out of the 18g doors from a datacenter air conditioning
> unit, lined it with 3" 2500 deg refractory brick and high temp mortar.
> Doors are castable, 2" think. Fired by a mankel 3-burner and a blower.
> The thing weighs about 300 pounds.
>
> It works well, but it's not how I'd do it again.
>
> J
>
> --- Grover Richardson <grover.richardson at gtri.gatech.edu> wrote:
>
>> I make mine out of 8 pound kaowool, surrounded by air conditioning
>> duct.
>> Sheet metal screws hold it together. For travelling, I place it in a
>> 5
>> gallon sheetrock mud bucket.
>>
>> >*>-----Original Message-----
>> >*>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> >*>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>> >*>Steven.Walker at its.state.ms.us
>> >*>Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:01 PM
>> >*>To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
>> >*>Subject: Fw: [TheForge] Gas forge Question
>> >*>
>> >*>
>> >*>
>> >*>>I'd like to point out that we often like to overbuild stuff,
>> forges
>> >*>>being
>> >*>no
>> >*>>exception.
>> >*>
>> >*>That's another reason I built mine with a freon tank instead
>> >*>of a propane tank.....the freon tank I had was much lighter
>> >*>a propane tank because it's constructed from a smaller guage
>> >*>sheet. Not sure what guage it is but it's pretty thin.
>> >*>
>> >*>Walker
>> >*>
>> >*>_______________________________________________
>> >*>Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> >*>>*>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> >*>theforge
>> >*>mail list group photo site is http://www.photoaccess.com
>> >*>Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> >*>password: anvil
>> >*>___________
>> >*>
>> >*>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> password: anvil
>> ___________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Justin Fellenz <sunironworks at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] bridge crane
> To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <20050927173539.19894.qmail at web31706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> Whew, pricey. I was just chatting with a guy down south of here who
> grew up in a steel mill family and figgered he had to have a crane like
> every good steel warehouse, but found that for the cost a forklift was
> cheaper. I can see why.
>
> JRF
>> Or you might find a deal on one at an auction. But since the main
>> component is big steel beams, scrap value alone for a 30x40 ft setup,
>>
>> including posts, is gonna be a few grand alone, and a motorised 3 ton
>>
>> hoist is worth something too.
>>
>> ries
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> password: anvil
>> ___________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:57:44 -0400
> From: "Kevin D" <flyinpig at go-concepts.com>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] bridge crane
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <FNEOIGGHNLPGJMOEKEFFCEJKEAAA.flyinpig at go-concepts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> BTW, I forgot to add that I also put in 4x4 braces from the double truss
> back to where the adjacent trusses mounted to the top wall beam/plate.
>
> Kevin D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Kevin D
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:47 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] bridge crane
>
>
>
> Justin and John,
>
> When I first moved into my present shop, I had a prospect for a king sized
> bed headboard. So, I commenced putting together a jib crane out of stuff
> I
> had on hand, for the most part. The bottom of the roof truss is 14', and
> the center one in my 30'x40' shop is doubled.
>
> My jib crane is built from a hollow 3"x6" rectangular tube for the
> vertical
> support. The bottom pivot is the rear spindle and wheel from some small
> front wheel drive car. I welded a flange to what would be the outside of
> the wheel, plummed a spot from the desire spot on the double truss, and
> bolted the wheel to the floor. The spindle I welded to a 4' piece of the
> 3x6 tube. The top of the 3x6 tube I welded in a female pipe that slip fit
> over a male pipe I welded to a bracket that I bolted to the double truss.
> These pipes were about three feet long to give plenty of contact bearing
> surface, with grease to help. With the bottom and top vertical tubes in
> place I welded them together with tabs to help placement and to give a
> little extra weld area.
>
> About two feet down from the top I mounted a 7" I beam 15' long. I ran
> chains with turnbuckles from the top of the 3x6 tube to the middle and end
> of the 15' I beam. I mounted the I beam to the 3x6 tubes with bolt
> through
> plates welded to the tube and I beam. This allowed me to put up the
> verticle tube, and hoist the I beam into place at it's balance point.
>
> I tested the jib crane by lifting my 25# LG at about 2/3 mast about 6" off
> the floor. It weighs about 900#s and sure made things creak and groan a
> bit. I climbed up a ladder and looked down the verticle tube and it had a
> fair amount of bow in it, but held just fine. I'll never lift that much
> with it. BUT, that said, I did weld a male pipe on the end of the
> I beam to
> act as a stop for the truck and serve as a holder for a leg that I can
> slip
> on the end for a stationary crane. I've backed my trailer into the shop,
> under the chain fall, and lifted 3500#, leave it suspended, pull
> the trailer
> out and lower the load onto pipes to bar/roll into position.
>
> I have an engineer client that has offered to noodle out the
> capacity of the
> crane for me, but I've got to get my ducks in order and draw it up with
> dimensions, which I haven't done. But it turns free and and rests easy
> wherever I leave it, and I can cover half my shop with it. It's about 5'
> out from the south wall so I can access my steel rack on that
> wall, and just
> misses the forge flue by a few inches.
>
> By the time I got it built, the lady changed her mind about the headboard,
> which might have a bit of bearing on Flying Pig Forge :)
>
> Kevin Donahoe
> Flying Pig Forge
> Morrow, OH 45152
> flyinpig at go-concepts.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Justin Fellenz
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:32 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] bridge crane
>
>
> YOu know, I may have used the wrong term. The crane I was referring to
> is anchored in pins at the floor and the ceiling of the shop with a
> vertical, pivoting I-beam between them and the crane part cantilevered
> out from the vertical post 4' down from the top or so. The outer end of
> the horizontal I-beam that the chainfall hangs from is supported by a
> heavy cable one one and a triangulating piece of i-beam on the other to
> keep it from sagging. The cranes' horizontals pivot through a
> quarter-circle from opposite corners of the shop, where the bench areas
> are. From memory and eyeball (don't take this as engineering data) the
> cranes are made from 5 or 6" x 3/16" i-beam, and he has 2-ton hoists on
> them. I don't know how far out he can go at full load though.
>
> The result is a nice compact system, easy to build (one rides on
> bearings top and bottom, and it moves really easily; the other is just
> on pins and it still works ok) and, for better *and* worse, it doesn't
> cover the entire shop. THe better part obviously is that you can still
> have air and electric lines and whatever else dangling from your bay
> ceiling; the worse, equally obvious, is that you can't put something
> just anywhere in the shop.
>
> Anyway, not arguing for one design or another, just thought his was a
> good setup that took less expensive iron to build. And you can't tip it
> over.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JRF
>
> > I have considered a couple of gantry cranes on wheels. They would be
> >
> > easier and much cheaper to build. But they probably wouldn't be an
> > even
> > substitute. So if I ave the choice I'll go with the bridge crane.
> > Of
> > course there may be times I'll wish I had both. Of course I have
> > seen a
> > gantry crane tip over with a 50# little giant hanging under it,
> > scared us
> > half to death but didn't hurt the hammer.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:00:16 -0400
> From: "Kevin D" <flyinpig at go-concepts.com>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] bridge crane
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <FNEOIGGHNLPGJMOEKEFFKEJKEAAA.flyinpig at go-concepts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> BTW, I forgot to add that I also put in 4x4 braces/gussets from the
> verticle
> tube attaches to the double truss back to where the adjacent trusses mount
> to the top wall beam/plate.
>
> Kevin D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Kevin D
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:47 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] bridge crane
>
>
>
> Justin and John,
>
> When I first moved into my present shop, I had a prospect for a king sized
> bed headboard. So, I commenced putting together a jib crane out of stuff
> I
> had on hand, for the most part. The bottom of the roof truss is 14', and
> the center one in my 30'x40' shop is doubled.
>
> My jib crane is built from a hollow 3"x6" rectangular tube for the
> vertical
> support. The bottom pivot is the rear spindle and wheel from some small
> front wheel drive car. I welded a flange to what would be the outside of
> the wheel, plummed a spot from the desire spot on the double truss, and
> bolted the wheel to the floor. The spindle I welded to a 4' piece of the
> 3x6 tube. The top of the 3x6 tube I welded in a female pipe that slip fit
> over a male pipe I welded to a bracket that I bolted to the double truss.
> These pipes were about three feet long to give plenty of contact bearing
> surface, with grease to help. With the bottom and top vertical tubes in
> place I welded them together with tabs to help placement and to give a
> little extra weld area.
>
> About two feet down from the top I mounted a 7" I beam 15' long. I ran
> chains with turnbuckles from the top of the 3x6 tube to the middle and end
> of the 15' I beam. I mounted the I beam to the 3x6 tubes with bolt
> through
> plates welded to the tube and I beam. This allowed me to put up the
> verticle tube, and hoist the I beam into place at it's balance point.
>
> I tested the jib crane by lifting my 25# LG at about 2/3 mast about 6" off
> the floor. It weighs about 900#s and sure made things creak and groan a
> bit. I climbed up a ladder and looked down the verticle tube and it had a
> fair amount of bow in it, but held just fine. I'll never lift that much
> with it. BUT, that said, I did weld a male pipe on the end of the
> I beam to
> act as a stop for the truck and serve as a holder for a leg that I can
> slip
> on the end for a stationary crane. I've backed my trailer into the shop,
> under the chain fall, and lifted 3500#, leave it suspended, pull
> the trailer
> out and lower the load onto pipes to bar/roll into position.
>
> I have an engineer client that has offered to noodle out the
> capacity of the
> crane for me, but I've got to get my ducks in order and draw it up with
> dimensions, which I haven't done. But it turns free and and rests easy
> wherever I leave it, and I can cover half my shop with it. It's about 5'
> out from the south wall so I can access my steel rack on that
> wall, and just
> misses the forge flue by a few inches.
>
> By the time I got it built, the lady changed her mind about the headboard,
> which might have a bit of bearing on Flying Pig Forge :)
>
> Kevin Donahoe
> Flying Pig Forge
> Morrow, OH 45152
> flyinpig at go-concepts.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Justin Fellenz
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:32 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] bridge crane
>
>
> YOu know, I may have used the wrong term. The crane I was referring to
> is anchored in pins at the floor and the ceiling of the shop with a
> vertical, pivoting I-beam between them and the crane part cantilevered
> out from the vertical post 4' down from the top or so. The outer end of
> the horizontal I-beam that the chainfall hangs from is supported by a
> heavy cable one one and a triangulating piece of i-beam on the other to
> keep it from sagging. The cranes' horizontals pivot through a
> quarter-circle from opposite corners of the shop, where the bench areas
> are. From memory and eyeball (don't take this as engineering data) the
> cranes are made from 5 or 6" x 3/16" i-beam, and he has 2-ton hoists on
> them. I don't know how far out he can go at full load though.
>
> The result is a nice compact system, easy to build (one rides on
> bearings top and bottom, and it moves really easily; the other is just
> on pins and it still works ok) and, for better *and* worse, it doesn't
> cover the entire shop. THe better part obviously is that you can still
> have air and electric lines and whatever else dangling from your bay
> ceiling; the worse, equally obvious, is that you can't put something
> just anywhere in the shop.
>
> Anyway, not arguing for one design or another, just thought his was a
> good setup that took less expensive iron to build. And you can't tip it
> over.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JRF
>
> > I have considered a couple of gantry cranes on wheels. They would be
> >
> > easier and much cheaper to build. But they probably wouldn't be an
> > even
> > substitute. So if I ave the choice I'll go with the bridge crane.
> > Of
> > course there may be times I'll wish I had both. Of course I have
> > seen a
> > gantry crane tip over with a 50# little giant hanging under it,
> > scared us
> > half to death but didn't hurt the hammer.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:35:04 -0800
> From: "Jerry Frost" <frosty at customcpu.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Gas forge Question
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <04e501c5c3a2$f1dedcc0$6501a8c0 at Frosty06>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I've been saying the same thing for a number of years now. The shell only
> has to be strong enough to support the hardware and work. Chicken wire or
> hardware cloth isn't a good choice for a different reason. The shell needs
> to contain ceramic wool blanket like Insulwool and Kaowool to prevent
> fibers
> from getting into the air causing a silicosis hazard.
>
> That said I like SS stove pipe as a shell provided you have the equipment
> and skills to work it. Welding 26 ga. SS can be a trick but a little
> practice is all it takes. It's also easy to make odd diameter shells with
> by
> snapping different dia. sections together. SS is also a poor conductor and
> helps conserve heat.
>
> While using what you have available is what blacksmithing is all about
> there
> comes a point of diminishing returns. I have no heartburn over cutting
> propane tanks; drain, flush and have at it, no problem. Still, I'm a 15
> min
> round trip from the building supply and stove pipe, steel and SS. In the
> time it'd take to remove the fittings, flush the tank and cut openings,
> etc.
> I'd have a forge finished and running with stove pipe.
>
> Frosty
> ------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Kevin D" <flyinpig at go-concepts.com>
>
>
>>
>> I'd like to point out that we often like to overbuild stuff, forges being
>> no
>> exception. But I've noticed that if the forge is adequately insulated
>> the
>> shell only needs to have sufficient structure to hold it together. I've
>> seen (and been guilty of) gas forges with a heavy outer shell that acted
>> as
>> a heat sink and prolonged the time it took to come up to heat. I think
>> that if chicken wire could offer enough form it'd be the best to hold the
>> insullation, then the problem might be mounting the burners and such.
>> Probably the best bet would be a stainless sheet tube like a heat duct.
>>
>> I'd thought of using an old beer keg, but it's heavier steel and too
>> valuable as a quench tank.
>>
>> Kevin D.
>>
>
>
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> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 20, Issue 33
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