[TheForge] OT biodiesel

[David E. Smucker]

Ries,  I think you are most likely right until we reach some price point at 
which oil / gas is too high vs. biodiesel.  But before that would happen oil 
shale would come back into play.  It made a play in the mid 70's by some of 
the oil big guys but require too large of a scale to get going.  Old story, 
if you come on the market with a very large new source of oil / fuel you 
will drive the price down to the point you can't return your huge investment 
and you close up shop.

As to the large oil / energy folks not going the way of biodiesel than is 
kind of par for new stuff.  The wrought iron folks didn't think Bessemer had 
anything with this mild steel stuff, nor did the US steel companies think 
that BOF was the way to make steel after WWII.  (lots of other examples out 
there too.)

While he was still on here, I think Dave Brown was working on a biodiesel 
fired forge.  Hope Dave is doing OK.

Dave Smucker

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ries Niemi" <rniemi at fidalgo.net>
To: "John switzer" <switz at mindspring.com>; "Sponsored by ABANA" 
<theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT biodiesel


>
> I gotta say, I am suspicious of this whole biodiesel thing-
> As far as french fry oil, I cant imagine there is enough used cooking oil 
> in the average town to supply 1/100th of a percent of the current diesel 
> fuel consumption.
> So for a few guys who feel like spending lots of time instead of money, 
> french fry oil will work- but it sure isnt a solution to oil consumption.
>
> And from what I have read, at current prices, it costs more to make 
> biodiesel from plant material like corn than it does to buy diesel fuel 
> from refineries.
> There are only two reasons so many biodiesel refining plants are being 
> built- government subsidies, which means we all pay extra so some farmers 
> can burn more diesel to farm, and scams- it seems there is a company in 
> Minnesota that develops and builds biodiesel refining plants-- using NONE 
> of their own money- they go into a town, convince all the local farmers to 
> mortgage their farms and houses to become "investors" in this big growth 
> industry, then they pay themselves to build and manage what are money 
> losing businesses. Once a critical mass of farmers and locals have their 
> futures tied up in these plants, they start to lobby the state government 
> to REQUIRE biodiesel for many state vehicles, give it tax breaks, etc.
> There are currently something like 50 of these plants either built or 
> under construction in the midwest, and not a single one of them was built 
> by big business- kinda makes you think somebody knows something. Well, I 
> heard Archer Daniels Midland did build one or two, but totally paid for by 
> government grants- none of their own money on the line.
>
> If all the gas and oil was used up, then biodiesel would make sense as an 
> alternative, but right now, there is a lot of smoke and mirrors around 
> this one- its kind of like the 150mpg carburetors.
>
> ries
>
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