Phil R, That explains a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil" <mobjak at yahoo.com> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 7:03 AM Subject: Re: [TheForge] horn Hmmm, I've heard this argument before, and this is the opposite of the way mine points, and I guess I'd have to say I disagree.