[TheForge] OT, but I Just have to ask...

Thu Jan 13 12:15:28 EST 2005

In the "old days" -- 1950's and 60's the DoD also bought some very large 
equipment that they owned but was located in private industry.  The 50,000 
ton closed die forging press at Alcoa's Cleveland Works was one of these as 
was a large rolling mill and heat treat furnaces at Alcoa's Davenport Works. 
That 50,000 ton press is the largest in the USA.  Russia built some 75,000 
ton presses one of which they sold to the French.  Alcoa now owns one of 
those big 75's in Russia too.

The way the DoD ownership used to work is that for non defense work, that 
Alcoa had to pay rent and usage fees to the DoD.  Very tight bookkeeping was 
required.  Later all of this equipment was purchased by Alcoa from the DoD 
(and not at bargain basement prices either.)   From comments of some of the 
older tech folks I knew it was a good working relationship between the DoD 
and industry.

Dave Smucker
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "gblacksmith" <gblacksmith at alamedanet.net>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT, but I Just have to ask...

>I have a relative who had done work at the Naval Weapons Facility at 
>Dahlgren, VA,  who claimed the equipment and technical specifications for 
>the manufacture of 16" guns was disposed of.  Supposedly, the largest we 
>can now make is a 14" rifle, the equipment for which is at Watervliet 
>Arsenal, NY.  The DoD has leased much of the heavy forging space at 
>Watervliet to private industry, and the place is now a museum of sorts.  I 
>bet they would have archival footage available.  Grant
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT, but I Just have to ask...
>
>
>> Much of the large forging capacity is still there and still in use.  The 
>> 10,000 ton and 3000 ton open die forge press that used to be Bethlehem 
>> Steel, then Bethlehem Forge in Bethlehem PA is now Lehigh Heavy Forge. 
>> The total Bethlehem Steel operations in Bethlehem used employ about 
>> 20,000 folks and started with iron ore and coal made everything.  What is 
>> left is just the heavy forge shop and heavy machine shop.  (Under 
>> different ownership.) They buy in their steel now and still handle 300 
>> ton forgings. Last time I was there in 1999 they were making very large 
>> prop shafts for the Navy and also for large turbines.  Most of their 
>> business is the forging, heat treating and finishing of rolling mill 
>> rolls.
>>
>> Dave Smucker
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT, but I Just have to ask...
>>
>>
>>> Where'd they come from?  As I recall, the whole naval ordnance operation 
>>> in VA or MD where the large 16" rifles were built have been dismantled 
>>> along with so much of the rest of American industrial might.  Shame. Can 
>>> you imagine what an operation the forging of one of those barrels must 
>>> have been?  I wonder if there is archive footage available anywhere.
>>>
>>> Mike Linn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are several cannon lathes about 4 miles from me at Tannehill 
>>>> State Park.
>>>>
>>>> They are really cool machines.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 05:30 PM 1/12/2005, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Justin Fellenz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But the cannon. Now, that's a cool idea. Anyone tried making one? A 
>>>>>> big
>>>>>> one, I mean? My lathe bed is, oh, 9 feet long and I can spin about 
>>>>>> 14".
>>>>>> I wonder if the bed would flx under the weight...I guess you'd have 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> rig up some rollers to carry it. And how would you bore something 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> long? Get it close with a long (flexy) boring bar and then clean it 
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> with a button?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         I think you really need a gun drill to do the job right. 
>>>>> Drilling deep holes is not an easy thing to do, if you want the hole 
>>>>> to be straight, that is. :)
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            Mike Linn
>>>>      Artist Blacksmith
>>>>          McCalla, AL
>>>>        AFC Webmaster
>>>> http://afc.abana-chapter.com
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> "Life isn't like a box of chocolates...it's more like a jar of
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>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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