[TheForge] Superquench/hardening power hammer dies

[Ralph Sproul]

Hi Don,  Glad you found some things to try in my method.  If you get to see
Nick Vincent some time he got all the handouts, and information I passed out
at the power hammer tooling and die workshop at the New England School of
Metalworking.  There were some good charts, and references in those hand
outs.  If you find something you like I can send you a copy of it.  It's all
buried in some notes I'm filtering thru to do another workshop next Fall.

I found the dies I purchased from Sid to be pretty hard.  He told me he made
them of 4140 and had them heat treated by the "batch" when he had his
machinist make enough of them to send in.  So I purchased a set of flat
dies, drawing dies, and combination dies from him before Bob Bergman so
willingly shared his dovetail/key/and die making process with me at his shop
when I visited and helped him set up the LaCrosse conference.  I've been
making my own since then.  It takes time on the milling machine, but the
material I got from Bob and Steve makes it rediculous to spend $380 per set
now.  Some day I'll pick up a shaper - but for now I use the carbide end
mills and just whittle away.

I'd be inclined to buy a set of those doube radius fullering dies that Uri
used - as those would be some serious time with a milling machine.  I was
toying with making a set of bolt on dies in that shape to see how they hold
up, but they are so little area in the middle I dont' know how the base
plate would fair on them.

It was about 10 below the morning the corner of the die came off at me.  It
was a shard about the size of a 12 guage slug and stuck right into my leg.
I had turned the heat on in the shop and it was up to about 40 - but I was
in a hurry and the dies and hammer had not come up to temperature at all
unfortunately.  It was after that incident that I watched the Clifton Ralph
tapes and saw he mentioned running a kerosene torpedo on your dies in a cold
shop.......so now I own one of those.  I don't have to use it that much now
as the shop is now fully insulated and a full time furnace in there - so I
keep the shop at 40 degrees now all winter (and turn it up during the day to
50, so my shattering die days seem to be behind me now.  I'm spending 95% of
my time in the shop now instead of that percentage on the road
welding.......and I like it much better.

I think you'd be smart to continue to make tools from the 52100 and get some
drops from Bob or Steve instead of trying to amass round stock.  It would be
fun to have the rounds to make texturing, multifullering, and leaf dies with
the round sizes though.  That would be good to weld to a set of the bolt
on's like Bob had mentioned (to start this thread).

Ralph

----- Original Message -----
From: <PlumDon at aol.com>
To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Superquench/hardening power hammer dies


> Morning, Ralph, et al;
>
> Happy New Year to all.
>
> Kindest thanks,Ralph for your great response regarding power hammer dies
and
> tempering, etc. That is a keeper and now appropriately filed for future
> reference.
>
> I have several dies purchased from a couple different  vendors...all of
> 4140...presumably. I rather doubt that any of them are  hardened, or even
> half-hardened. I suspect there are a lot of folks using  purchased dies
that are not
> heat treated. Mine are holding up pretty well with  only an occasional
dressing
> required. I have been heating and just welding to  the plates, also. But I
> think I will try your "half hardening" approach and see  if it makes any
> difference. A most excellent suggestion. Bungling up the  hardening and
tempering of
> power hammer dies can create a serious hazard if you  over harden. As
> apparently, you are well aware. Additionally, having spent four  years
living in New
> Hampshire I can well recall those 25 below mornings and what  they can do
to a
> piece of metal. I like the idea of working with softer  dies.
>
> I recently came into about 1500 pounds of 52100 all in round stock. About
4'
> long and 1/4" to 3/4" round. Mandrels from a tubing manufacturer. It is
> tremendously tough stuff without any significant heat treating. But I dont
know
> if I could get it into enough mass to make 2" x 4" dies. Tempted to try
welding
>  it together and hot shaping. But I suspect it would never hold together.
> Nevertheless, it does make good tools.
>
> Thanks, again, Ralph for some or your always, very helpful  information
> Don
>
> Don  Plummer
> Plummer Design Works
> 392 Hallman Mill Road
> Phoenixville, PA  19460
> 610-495-5058
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