[TheForge] Bedtime reading

[David E. Smucker]

Andy,
Think about the friction a bit.  Start with just "simple" flat rolling (not 
shapes). On one side of the roll bit we have the thicker entry metal going 
at a "slow" speed, we have the roll surface turning at another speed, called 
"medium" and we have the exit thin material moving at a third speed "fast". 
All of the energy from the moving roll has to be transferred to the metal by 
the friction between the roll and the metal with a film of lubrication 
between the surface of the roll and the surface of the metal.  The pressures 
are very high and the type of lubrication vary dependent on speed, film 
strength of lubrication, temperature, viscosity of lubricate etc. etc.  Way 
over my head at this point, like I said I was an equipment guy, but I could 
run the models to find pass schedules, required horsepower, separating 
force, metal temperature etc. etc.

Dave Smucker
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Bedtime reading


>
>
> David E. Smucker wrote:
>> Andy,  Just my point -- what used to be an "art" and the use of 
>> "experience based rules of thumb" is today being handle by computer 
>> models of the process.
>
> Ah, I was being thick.  I completely agree, but computerization isn't all 
> bad.  It does open avenues of technology that would otherwise be 
> impossible to traverse.  It's not the technology per se that disturbs me, 
> but rather the context in which it is used.  Were people sane on the whole 
> and were we as a race not sucking every last bit of life out of this 
> world, the technology would not be bothersome.  But it is being used as a 
> lever to perpetuate insane ways of living.  OTOH, were we living in a 
> manner more consistent with my own definitions of sanity, perhaps we would 
> not covet all this high technology.  Perhaps doing things the "old 
> fashioned way" would hold greater appeal on the broad basis.  I don't 
> know.
>
> > Development of these models has been very active
>> since the early 1970's and they have gotten better and better.  Many of 
>> the models have been very closely held "trade secrets" for sometime by 
>> various companies.  This is true of not just rolling both shape and flat 
>> rolling but also close die forging.  One of the areas that remains the 
>> hardest to model is the friction between the metal and rolls or dies.  In 
>> many cases models still depend on experience based data models for the 
>> friction factors.
>
> Really?  I'm not in the mode to think about this right now... or maybe I'm 
> just clueless.  Do you know what the difficulties are with modeling roll 
> friction?  That it would be a significant problem is not immediuately 
> apparent to me.  Then again, I've never really thought about it.
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