[TheForge] Re: TheForge Digest, Vol 23, Issue 9
Ray Clontz
rayclontz at bellsouth.net
Wed Dec 7 16:00:04 EST 2005
If you want to know the inventor of the power hammer-go to anvilfire -power
hammer page -user built hammers- NC
green machine - designed by Ray Clontz
from Charlotte NC. I gave Clay permission to do the builds like he was doing
the threadle hammers . The :tire"
hammer is a great machine for somebody that only needs a 50 # hammer and a
lage hammer would be "overkill " for their shop and possibly their budget.
----- Original Message -----
From: <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>
To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: TheForge Digest, Vol 23, Issue 9
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Tire power hammer/YAK long (Rick)
> 2. RE: Tire power hammer/YAK long (Grover Richardson)
> 3. Re: Welding cast iron (John Husvar)
> 4. RE: Welding cast iron (Washington, Aubrey O.)
> 5. RE: Welding cast iron (Tod Estes)
> 6. Re: Welding cast iron (Bruce Freeman)
> 7. RE: Welding cast iron (Bruce Freeman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 06:20:59 -0600
> From: "Rick" <rick at smokyforge.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Tire power hammer/YAK long
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <002d01c5fb28$aea15740$6701a8c0 at Rickhome>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello Roger -
>
> I think we should try to get Clay to do this for UMBA. I would like to
> have a power hammer and DON'T like the noise of an air compressor running
> all the time. Also, I have heard of these hammers and their cood
> control-ability. Maybe we can get something going, what do you think?
>
> Rick Crawford at Rafter Lazy C
> Home of Smoky Forge and Lem the Wonder Mule
> In the middle of Northern Illinois
>
> http://www.smokyforge.com
> rick at smokyforge.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger R Degner" <rog781 at means.net>
> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Cc: <blacksmiths at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:45 PM
> Subject: [TheForge] Tire power hammer/YAK long
>
>
>>I have returned home from the Alabama Forge Council conference where I
>> got the opportunity to watch Clay Spencer run a shop made #50 mechanical
>> hammer made with a emergency spare tire as the clutch. He gave the name
>> of the inventor several times but I don't remember it at the moment.
>>
>> I thought this hammer was the BEST running mechanical trip hammer I ever
>> watched work.
>> It always stopped with the hammer in the up position
>> He was using it with flat dies and showed many different types of top
>> tooling mainly spring swages/fuller but some hand held top tooling also.
>> When just using the dies it did a very good job of drawing
>>
>> clip
>>
>> I taped the demonstration and am converting it to DVD-R. It will
>> eventually be avalible from the UMBA library for $7 shipped. A full
>> list of videos are at www.umbaonline.org
>>
>> The AFC group was very nice to visit. They have two buildings for the
>> demos equipped with a little giant, a treadle hammer, forging press, one
>> of Tom Clarks Air Hammers vises tables forges and all the tooling a
>> typical shop could every want other than a cone mandrel.
>> The weather was a drastic change on the way home. It was at least 50s
>> there and when I awoke at a rest stop at 4am on the way home to
>> Minnesota it was -9. It was 1150 miles one way but well worth the trip.
>> They say next years conference will be the weekend after labor day in
>> September so mark your calendars.
>>
>>
>>
>> Roger R Degner
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 12/1/2005
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:11:20 -0500
> From: "Grover Richardson" <grover.richardson at gtri.gatech.edu>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Tire power hammer/YAK long
> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <003e01c5fb2f$b8445d90$2c0a670a at atasad.ccrf>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Put the compressor out back in another building/area. That's what Dan
> Tull
> does<G>. Never hear the compressor. Note though, for my side work, it's
> about 100' from the compressor to the work area. Have to put a water
> separator at the work location also. Georgia, sometimes humidity gets
> dense
> enough you need a water pump<G>.
>
>>*>-----Original Message-----
>>*>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>*>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick
>>*>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 7:21 AM
>>*>To: Sponsored by ABANA
>>*>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Tire power hammer/YAK long
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>Hello Roger -
>>*>
>>*> I think we should try to get Clay to do this for UMBA.
>>*>I would like to
>>*>have a power hammer and DON'T like the noise of an air
>>*>compressor running
>>*>all the time. Also, I have heard of these hammers and their cood
>>*>control-ability. Maybe we can get something going, what do
>>*>you think?
>>*>
>>*>Rick Crawford at Rafter Lazy C
>>*> Home of Smoky Forge and Lem the Wonder Mule
>>*> In the middle of Northern Illinois
>>*>
>>*> http://www.smokyforge.com
>>*> rick at smokyforge.com
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>----- Original Message -----
>>*>From: "Roger R Degner" <rog781 at means.net>
>>*>To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>*>Cc: <blacksmiths at yahoogroups.com>
>>*>Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:45 PM
>>*>Subject: [TheForge] Tire power hammer/YAK long
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>>I have returned home from the Alabama Forge Council
>>*>conference where I
>>*>>got the opportunity to watch Clay Spencer run a shop made #50
>>*>>mechanical hammer made with a emergency spare tire as the
>>*>clutch. He
>>*>>gave the name of the inventor several times but I don't
>>*>remember it at
>>*>>the moment.
>>*>>
>>*>> I thought this hammer was the BEST running mechanical trip
>>*>hammer I
>>*>> ever watched work. It always stopped with the hammer in the up
>>*>> position He was using it with flat dies and showed many different
>>*>> types of top tooling mainly spring swages/fuller but some
>>*>hand held
>>*>> top tooling also. When just using the dies it did a very
>>*>good job of
>>*>> drawing
>>*>>
>>*>> clip
>>*>>
>>*>> I taped the demonstration and am converting it to DVD-R. It will
>>*>> eventually be avalible from the UMBA library for $7
>>*>shipped. A full
>>*>> list of videos are at www.umbaonline.org
>>*>>
>>*>> The AFC group was very nice to visit. They have two
>>*>buildings for the
>>*>> demos equipped with a little giant, a treadle hammer,
>>*>forging press,
>>*>> one of Tom Clarks Air Hammers vises tables forges and all
>>*>the tooling
>>*>> a typical shop could every want other than a cone mandrel.
>>*>The weather
>>*>> was a drastic change on the way home. It was at least 50s
>>*>there and
>>*>> when I awoke at a rest stop at 4am on the way home to
>>*>Minnesota it was
>>*>> -9. It was 1150 miles one way but well worth the trip.
>>*>They say next
>>*>> years conference will be the weekend after labor day in
>>*>September so
>>*>> mark your calendars.
>>*>>
>>*>>
>>*>>
>>*>> Roger R Degner
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>
>>*>--
>>*>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>*>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>*>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release
>>*>Date: 12/1/2005
>>*>
>>*>_______________________________________________
>>*>Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>>*>>*>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>*>theforge
>>*>mail list group photo site is http://www.photoaccess.com
>>*>Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>*>password: anvil
>>*>___________
>>*>
>>*>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:50:28 -0500
> From: John Husvar <jhusvar at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <5974CB35-E2CF-43A4-836A-8D4D2B82BD7D at sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Bruce Freeman wrote:
>
>>
>> But graphite would burn off less readily, and more would be exposed
>> as you melted the mother metal.
>
> So that's what the correct name of that stuff is, Mother Metal! I
> usually add a suffix on the first word. Maybe it gets insulted and
> that's why I can't weld it worth a darn! :)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:40:13 -0600
> From: "Washington, Aubrey O." <awashington at ou.edu>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <2E392E1E4AF06D46B1720012FF4E207001B5DC60 at XMAIL1.sooner.net.ou.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> As long as we are talking about welding cast iron, I have a question.
> Recently I bought an Acme post drill that looks exactly like one in the
> 1915 Sears catalog; the one for $7.10 at
> http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/drilling/postdril.htm. After cleaning
> off 90 years of ossified grease and dirt and oiling it up, the drill
> worked great! I was able to drill a 3/4" hole in 1/8" plate in a couple
> of minutes. I was so happy I began gleefully drilling holes in everything
> I could find. Then came the problem; I broke my new toy.
>
> The small wheel at the top advances the down-feed of the spindle by means
> of a pivot arm that works against the eccentric hub of the flywheel. I
> broke the pivot arm by continuing to crank after the spindle reached its
> maximum extension. In my feeble defense, it broke at or near a previous
> repair.
>
> Now here are my questions. Is this arm likely to be cast iron? It looks
> like it might be because the angular shape of it looks like it was
> designed to release from a mold. The interior of the break looks grey and
> grainy. From this thread I take it the repair could be done by arc
> welding with nickel rod, brazing, or gas welding with iron. Bernie points
> out that expansion is often a big problem in welding cast. But that
> should not be much of an issue with this part since it is small and there
> is no restriction on expansion in the length of the arm. It would also be
> easy to pre and post heat. BTW, if I decide to weld it, I will find
> someone else to do it since I'm a lousy welder.
>
> Is any repair likely to be strong enough for the strain put on this part?
> Would I be better off just forging a new arm out of mild or medium carbon
> steel?
>
> Aubrey Washington
> Saltfork Craftsmen ABA, ABANA
> Rock Creek Forge
> Norman, OK
>
>
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:26:20 +0900
> From: Bisnette SSgt Bernie R <BisnetteBR at 1maw.usmc.mil>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: "'blacksmith at atlasok.com'" <blacksmith at atlasok.com>, 'Sponsored
> by
> ABANA' <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <3621DB29C10C214F8D7445C338C5C5F9D913B9 at 1maw01e.1maw.usmc.mil>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I've been following this thread and here's what I can throw in the mix:
>
> Gray cast iron is 94% pure iron and varying portions of carbon, manganese,
> phosphorus, silicon and sulfur. Engine blocks, pulleys, and pump bodies
> use
> this. A torch test will show a heavy tough film that forms on the surface
> as it melts. Spark test will reveal a small volume of dull red sparks that
> follows a straight line will form close to the wheel. These break up into
> fine, repeated spurts, which change to straw color.
>
> White cast iron is produced by casting against metal chills. This causes
> the free carbon in the gray cast iron to combine with the iron. Recommend
> NOT to be welded. It is very hard and brittle.
>
> Malleable cast iron. Created by heating white cast iron to about 1,659
> deg
> F and holding it here for several hours or even days and cooling it
> slowly.
> Can be bent without breaking and it will withstand shock. Hard wearing
> hand
> tools, pipe fittings and automotive parts are usually made with this.
> Spark
> testing will show the outer bright layer gives bright sparks like steel.
> When the interior is reached the sparks quickly change to dull read color
> near the wheel. A little longer spark than that from gray cast.
>
> I was taught that the big problem with welding cast is the expansion.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:53:05 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Tod Estes" <blacksmith at atlasok.com>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <57285.70.184.20.213.1133970785.squirrel at mail.atlasok.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Comments below
>
>> As long as we are talking about welding cast iron, I have a question.
>> Recently I bought an Acme post drill that looks exactly like one in the
>> 1915 Sears catalog; the one for $7.10 at
>> http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/drilling/postdril.htm. After cleaning
>> off 90 years of ossified grease and dirt and oiling it up, the drill
>> worked great! I was able to drill a 3/4" hole in 1/8" plate in a couple
>> of minutes. I was so happy I began gleefully drilling holes in
>> everything
>> I could find. Then came the problem; I broke my new toy.
>>
>> The small wheel at the top advances the down-feed of the spindle by means
>> of a pivot arm that works against the eccentric hub of the flywheel. I
>> broke the pivot arm by continuing to crank after the spindle reached its
>> maximum extension. In my feeble defense, it broke at or near a previous
>> repair.
>>
>> Now here are my questions. Is this arm likely to be cast iron? It looks
>> like it might be because the angular shape of it looks like it was
>> designed to release from a mold. The interior of the break looks grey
>> and
>> grainy. From this thread I take it the repair could be done by arc
>> welding with nickel rod, brazing, or gas welding with iron. Bernie
>> points
>> out that expansion is often a big problem in welding cast. But that
>> should not be much of an issue with this part since it is small and there
>> is no restriction on expansion in the length of the arm. It would also
>> be
>> easy to pre and post heat. BTW, if I decide to weld it, I will find
>> someone else to do it since I'm a lousy welder.
>>
>> Is any repair likely to be strong enough for the strain put on this part?
>> Would I be better off just forging a new arm out of mild or medium carbon
>> steel?
>>
>> Aubrey Washington
>> Saltfork Craftsmen ABA, ABANA
>> Rock Creek Forge
>> Norman, OK
> Hi Aubrey, think we will get snow today?
>
> Since it is such a small part and you think that you can forge one to
> replace it then you are not at a loss. Give welding it a try. With a small
> part you can easily preheat then insulate to very slow cooling. If that
> fails then forge a new one. Or mebe forge the new one first then try
> welding the old one so you have a spare for the next time it breaks. I
> have an old post drill too lots of fun to play with but I get too
> impatinent and end up binding it too often.
>
> Tod Estes
> Oologah Smithy
> Oologah,Oklahoma. (Home of Will Rogers.)
> Saltfork Craftsmen ABA, ABANA
> Time enough for sleep in the grave.
>
> "Prometheus: I took from man expectancy of death.
> Chorus: What medicine found'st thou for this
> malady?
> Prometheus: I planted blind hope in the heart of
> him.
> Chorus: A mighty boon thou gavest there to man.
> Prometheus: Moreover, I conferred the gift of fire
> Chorus: And have frail mortals now the flame-
> bright fire.
> Prometheus: yes, and shall master many arts
> thereby."
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:03:44 -0500
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <s396c1a3.013 at gv01a67m.gv.us.pri.wyeth.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Of COURSE that's the correct name. Did you think I'd lead you astray?
>
> But be careful how you pronounce "mother"!
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
>>>> jhusvar at sbcglobal.net 12/7/2005 8:50:28 AM >>>
>
> On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Bruce Freeman wrote:
>
>>
>> But graphite would burn off less readily, and more would be exposed
>> as you melted the mother metal.
>
> So that's what the correct name of that stuff is, Mother Metal! I
> usually add a suffix on the first word. Maybe it gets insulted and
> that's why I can't weld it worth a darn! :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:11:54 -0500
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <s396c38b.010 at gv01a67m.gv.us.pri.wyeth.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I stumbled on this:
> http://www.locknstitch.com/CastIronWelding.htm
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
>>>> awashington at ou.edu 12/7/2005 10:40:13 AM >>>
> As long as we are talking about welding cast iron, I have a question.
> Recently I bought an Acme post drill that looks exactly like one in the
> 1915 Sears catalog; the one for $7.10 at
> http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/drilling/postdril.htm. After cleaning
> off 90 years of ossified grease and dirt and oiling it up, the drill
> worked great! I was able to drill a 3/4" hole in 1/8" plate in a couple
> of minutes. I was so happy I began gleefully drilling holes in everything
> I could find. Then came the problem; I broke my new toy.
>
> The small wheel at the top advances the down-feed of the spindle by means
> of a pivot arm that works against the eccentric hub of the flywheel. I
> broke the pivot arm by continuing to crank after the spindle reached its
> maximum extension. In my feeble defense, it broke at or near a previous
> repair.
>
> Now here are my questions. Is this arm likely to be cast iron? It looks
> like it might be because the angular shape of it looks like it was
> designed to release from a mold. The interior of the break looks grey and
> grainy. From this thread I take it the repair could be done by arc
> welding with nickel rod, brazing, or gas welding with iron. Bernie points
> out that expansion is often a big problem in welding cast. But that
> should not be much of an issue with this part since it is small and there
> is no restriction on expansion in the length of the arm. It would also be
> easy to pre and post heat. BTW, if I decide to weld it, I will find
> someone else to do it since I'm a lousy welder.
>
> Is any repair likely to be strong enough for the strain put on this part?
> Would I be better off just forging a new arm out of mild or medium carbon
> steel?
>
> Aubrey Washington
> Saltfork Craftsmen ABA, ABANA
> Rock Creek Forge
> Norman, OK
>
>
> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:26:20 +0900
> From: Bisnette SSgt Bernie R <BisnetteBR at 1maw.usmc.mil>
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Welding cast iron
> To: "'blacksmith at atlasok.com'" <blacksmith at atlasok.com>, 'Sponsored
> by
> ABANA' <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <3621DB29C10C214F8D7445C338C5C5F9D913B9 at 1maw01e.1maw.usmc.mil>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I've been following this thread and here's what I can throw in the mix:
>
> Gray cast iron is 94% pure iron and varying portions of carbon, manganese,
> phosphorus, silicon and sulfur. Engine blocks, pulleys, and pump bodies
> use
> this. A torch test will show a heavy tough film that forms on the surface
> as it melts. Spark test will reveal a small volume of dull red sparks that
> follows a straight line will form close to the wheel. These break up into
> fine, repeated spurts, which change to straw color.
>
> White cast iron is produced by casting against metal chills. This causes
> the free carbon in the gray cast iron to combine with the iron. Recommend
> NOT to be welded. It is very hard and brittle.
>
> Malleable cast iron. Created by heating white cast iron to about 1,659
> deg
> F and holding it here for several hours or even days and cooling it
> slowly.
> Can be bent without breaking and it will withstand shock. Hard wearing
> hand
> tools, pipe fittings and automotive parts are usually made with this.
> Spark
> testing will show the outer bright layer gives bright sparks like steel.
> When the interior is reached the sparks quickly change to dull read color
> near the wheel. A little longer spark than that from gray cast.
>
> I was taught that the big problem with welding cast is the expansion.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
>
>
>
>
> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 23, Issue 9
> ***************************************
>
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