[TheForge] OT IT estimation OT hit DELETE now

[Andy Vida]

Charle B Vincent wrote:
> 
> Yeah , well to give Andy his due, there is still a skill in caclulating
> the base hours and then figuring an "acceptable" ( theres the art)
> amount of fudge for cockups and great ideas thathas to be backed by the
> hardnose discipline of saying when and meaning it.

	Anywhere between 15 and 100 percent, depending on the client,
	their talent, resolve, clued-in-ness, etc.  One must be bold
	in these things because they usually go way wrong.  The
	unforeseen factors in SDLC work are many and ever present.
	Being a firm believer that nearly all development projects 
	turn into clusterfucks, I plan accordingly.  When I bring a 
	project in under cost and time, the client is happy.

	If you think it will take 12 months to develop a system, tell
	them 18 to 24 and you may actually get your 12.  It's all a
	funny little psychological dance that you do with the client
	or your boss.  I used to work for Coopers & Lybrand and they
	were the originators of the "work your people to death"
	school of clusterfuckery.  If a  project would realistically
	require 12 months to complete, they would bid it out at the
	same price (for 12 months) but promise it in 6.  They were
	notorious for this, and it was this strategy that got them
	many lucrative contracts over companies such as Anderson
	and Peat-Marwick.  The problem lay in the fact that we had
	to live in the lab, cranking out code.  I once lived in
	the lab for nearly two months, seven days a week, going
	home for a couple hours on Sunday to get new clothing and
	a shower.  No joke kiddies.  We went a bloody week without
	a shower, ate more pizza than any ten of you put together,
	and were absolultely miserable.  But we got it done on time,
	on budget, and didn't get a penny of extra income from it.

	This practice is now virtually boilerplate in American
	industry, especially in IT.  Work them to death and when
	they drop, plug the next one in their place.  It's really
	quite ghastly if you think about it hard enough, which I
	do not recommend.
> 
> Charles
> 
> Gladish Family wrote:
> 
> >>Hate to bust your bubble here Andy, but blacksmithing and software are
> >>still more art than not, so they are never done.  In both, it seems your
> >>perceptions of the task at hand change in the doing of it and your best
> >>ideas happen three quarters of the way through the job.     They both
> >>will expand to fill the available time.   The real skill is in the
> >>knowing when to say no more and the having the discipline to act on it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Since looking at sites like "theforge" and so on involves both software and
> >blacksmithing, look out. It'll suck up your time like a Shop Vac.
> >
> >
> >
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