[TheForge] Fw: [medieval-leather] Re: Digest Number 1186

[marilyn traber 011221]

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To: medieval-leather at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:30:57 -0000
Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Digest Number 1186

--- In medieval-leather at yahoogroups.com, "Frojel Gotlandica"
<frojel at d...> wrote:
>  You get experts like this all the time, I had one recently tell me
> that blacksmiths used waxed linen cloth to make their bellows
> because leather was so rare.
>  They forget that herds were culled pre and during winter and the
> meat used to survive the winter. guessing they might not have thrown
> the leather in a pit just to get rid of it then leather may not have
> been so very rare. 

Depends.  

How many animals are we talking about?  "Cattle Ranches" with herds of
hundred of animals are a relatively recent invention.  Yes, some
premedieval cultures had herds of a goodly size, but we're talking the
Middle Ages here.   Cattle slaughtered per person, versus, say, the
late 19th/early 20th century (a time when we -know- leather to have
been reasonably plentiful and used for everything)

How big are the animals?  Medieval Cattle had a smaller surface area
than, say, modern cattle.  We know this because we have skeletal
remains, and the cattle that are slaughtered inthe winter tend to be
the immature males anyway - making things even smaller.  The average
height of modern cattle (the last time I checked) was 150 cm at the
shoulder and between 410 and 910 kg.  Cattle in the medival period
were generally around 110 cm at the shoulder, although with some
upwards of 130 cm.  So we looking at losing roughly a third of the
height from the average bovine.  The useable surface area reduces as well.

How big a pain is it to cart the hides to the tannery?  Before it
putrifies?  We know tanners sometimes tried to tan putrified (or in
the parlance "rotten") hides, because they were fined for it.

> Plus there is also the hunting aspect of things to be considered.
>  The more primitive the society the more dependence on and use of
> leather. Take it with a grain ( Or bag.) of salt.

I agree that we want to be careful of the assumptions we look are
handed - that means of course *all* assumptions (like how do we really
know that more "primative" cultures have a greater dependence on
leather (than what, anyway?).  And we certainly don't have to agree on
a lot of these -- but if you don't want to agree with them, at least
take a look at the evidence he or she is presenting, and don't just
write them off as "You get experts like this all the time" - as though
there was no difference between someone who's actually paid their
research dues and knows what they are talking about, and some shmuck
who's just shooting off his mouth about of something he's read
god-knows-where.

BTW, did you ask to see the evidence for the waxed linen cloth bellows?  

Once we've seen the evidence, then we look to see if it's appropriate
for the period we're actually studying.

Marc



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