[TheForge] Propane supply problem

[terry l. ridder]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 marc at ironringforge.com wrote:

marc> My interspersions (did I just invent a new word???) below:
marc> 
Quoting "terry l. ridder" <terrylr at blauedonau.com>:
marc> >
marc> > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 marc at ironringforge.com wrote:
marc> >
marc> > marc>
marc> > marc> My propane supplier won't give me more than 5psi to my new shop.
marc> 
marc> > which company is your propane service company?
marc> 
marc> I'm going with Amerigas. I was going to try others in the area, but Amerigas'
marc> propane prices are significantly lower than everyone else. Since I also heat
marc> the house and water with propane, switching to another would cost at least
marc> $170/year.
marc> 

okay, same company i have.

marc> 
marc> >
marc> > also ask him for the specific chapter and paragraph he is going by.
marc> 
marc> He mentioned 2.5.1.
marc> 

well he is correct there:

<begin quote>
2.5 piping system operating pressure limitations

2.5.1 maximum design operating pressure
the maximum design operating pressure for a piping system located inside
buildings shall not exceed 5 psig ( 34 kpa gauge ) unless approved by
the authority having juridiction and one or more of the following
conditions are met:

(a) the piping system is welded. (<--- notice )
(b) the piping system is located in a ventilated chase or otherwise
enclosed for protection against accidental gas accumulation.
(c) the piping is located inside buildings or separate areas of
buildings used exclusively for:
    1. industrial processing or heating.
    2. research
    3. warehousing, or
    4. boiler or mechancial equipment rooms.
(d) the piping is a temporary installation for buildings under
construction.
<end   quote>

my piping system is black pipe and welded.

marc> 
marc> >
marc> > the national fire prevention association code allows for greater than 5
marc> > psig if the piping meets certain criteria. the main criteria is that the
marc> > piping system is welding or brazed.
marc> >
marc> > my piping system is running at 20psig propane.
marc> 
marc> He never mentioned that. But I'm running copper tubing with flared connections,
marc> so I would probably be out there. He did mention that they could go to 20psi
marc> for a liquid delivery. That's about it.
marc> 

i would not trust flared connections pass 5 psig.

marc> >
marc> > i would suggest visiting the library and checkout the latest nfpa for
marc> > fuel gas and the lpg.
marc> > NFPA 54	  National Fuel Gas Code
marc> > NFPA 58	  Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code
marc> >
marc> > also checkout the book,  NFPA 58: LP-Gas Code Handbook, 2004 Edition
marc> >
marc> > http://www.nfpa.org
marc> 
marc> Thanks, I think I'll do that.
marc> 
marc> >
marc> > marc>
marc> > marc> So what to do? I'd like to keep using a non-blown burner. I know that I
marc> > can
marc> > marc> forge at 5psi right now, but not weld.
marc> >
marc> > this really depends on the burner you are using.
marc> > 5psig of propane should be able to reach welding temps.
marc> 
marc> I'm real flexible with burners right now. I was about to try out the side-arm.
marc> but if there's a design that works better at lower pressures, that would be
marc> great. If I get the chance, I'll try a bigger jet size on the side-arm and see
marc> what happens. That's a simple enough experiment.
marc> 
marc> The downside of a bigger jet is less savings when idling. I use a needle valve
marc> to turn down the heat while hammering. If I set the burner to weld at 5psi,
marc> then I would probably do normal forging down near 2-3psi. That leaves little
marc> room to turn down. Hmmm... maybe using the regulator for this instead of the
marc> needle valve. Something else to try.
marc> 

my forge has 4 burners, which are the original ron reil design, and can
easily reach welding temperatures running at less than 5 psig. if you
look at ron reil's propane forge, mine is nearly identical.

marc> >
marc> > marc>
marc> > marc> Also, I was looking to use the piped propane to run some oxy-propane
marc> > for cutting
marc> > marc> and spot heating. What pressures are needed for that? And how about a
marc> > hand
marc> > marc> torch, like a propane TurboTorch? Do they need higher pressure than
marc> > 5psi?
marc> > marc>
marc> >
marc> > nfpa 54 and 58 do not cover any fuel gas piping system used for welding.
marc> 
marc> Actually, I was asking if 5psi would be enough to power a cutting/heating torch.
marc> If I can make 5psi work in the forge then I'd like my other applications to
marc> work, too. The TurboTorch I was thinking of is the plumber's type of
marc> air-propane. I've seen some people do interesting work with copper using these
marc> to anneal.
marc>

not familar with the torch. so i am unable to help you there.

marc>
marc> >
marc> > marc>
marc> > marc> My other option is to get my own tank, like an 80-lb, but I got spoiled
marc> > marc> with my previous 100-gal tank.
marc> >
marc> > personally, i would have two different bulk tanks, one for the house and
marc> > one for the shop.
marc> 
marc> I've already got three for the house. Our property isn't suitable for one of
marc> those torpedos, I guess. I really didn't want to add one more.
marc> 
marc> 
marc> Thanks for the feedback, Terry.

you are welcome.

marc> 
marc> --Marc
marc> 

-- 
terry l. ridder ><>