[TheForge] O/T Survivor

[Andy Vida]

Ries Niemi wrote:
> 
> On Friday, January 2, 2004, at 03:43 PM, Phlip wrote:
> 
> >
> > Ries, what does this have to do with anything?
> 
> I just get tired of hearing that an armed citizenry is the answer to
> all our problems,

	I'm not sure who has said or implied this, but I would
	have to disagree with such a position.  It is not
	sufficient, but it IS necessary.  Put more than one
	human in a room and give them enough power and you
	stand a very good chance of spawning another Stalin
	or Lenin.  It just seems to happen.  The litany of
	despots is longer than my pecker (take from that what
	you will).  In such endeavors people cannot, by and
	large, be trusted to the door.

> and if we arm everybody we wont need foreign policy,

	Agreed.  This is simplistic and unsound.

> an army, or diplomats- that's all. And that seemed to be what Darrell
> was saying, although of course I could be totally wrong. Have been
> before.

	I didn't take his meaning to be that, but I may have
	read him incorrectly.  Perhaps he will chime in and
	clarify?
> 
> Most of the people I know with guns have them because they are fun.  I
> know people who are very responsible, and I know total knuckleheads who
> have a houseful of weaponry. Doesnt seem to make any difference whether
> they grew up with them, or bought their first gun at 30- people
> everywhere seem to vary widely in their smarts, common sense, and
> honesty.

	Most of the gun owners I've known well enough to be
	finamiliar with their gun handling habits have been
	very responsible.  I have also known a few imbeciles
	that should not, in my estimation, be allowed on a
	planet that has so much as a single gun on it.  I have
	also noticed that most of the yahoos are city-folk.
	Less so for suburbanites and FAR less so for country
	folk.  Draw from that what you might.

> Every year in the farm country where I live, a couple of good
> old boys who have been hunting since they were knee high to a
> grasshopper manage to shoot their buddies by accident.

	Most of the idiot hunters I've known came from cities,
	mostly NYC.  These are the guys that think it's a good
	idea to get yourself liquored up real good and bring
	several BOXES of ammo with you.  I am a most firm
	proponent of the Marines' "one shot, one kill" motto.
	IMO, if you're going into the woods with more than
	three rounds in your possession, you're sadly lacking
	in something essential to good hunting, whether it be
	smarts, attitude, skill, or some exotic combination of
	these.  If you cannot take one lousy deer with three
	rounds, you have no business being out there.  Go pay
	someone to do it for you and stay home and do something
	you ARE good are, even if it is just operating the remote
	control whilst enthroned upon the Lay-Z-Boy.

	BTW, I say three rounds because I believe in having one
	backup in case your first shot was not clean.  No greater
	sin can any man commit than to maim another living thing
	and not make short work of their agony.  THis may sound
	extreme, but to me it is worthy of a death penalty to
	do such damage to another living being and not make
	Mercy's most rapid amend to those who give their lives
	to you that you might see another day, much less flourish.

	And the third round because "shit happens".

> Guns are tools,
> and people insist on using tools when they are drunk, hungover, tired,
> angry, sleepy, and just plain dumb to begin with. 

	Unfortunately, this is too true in some cases.
> 
> So I dont have any great faith in how much safer I would be on a
> airplane if everybody was armed. I have been on plenty of airplanes
> with plenty of dickheads who proceeded to get as drunk as possible, and
> then raise havoc.

	Well, given the current state of our culture's sense of
	behavior and manners, I would have to strongly agree. But
	one must also take in to account that with armed carriage
	gaining in frequency, such behavior would also diminish
	rather rapidly.  Ever been to ashooting event?  I used to
	shoot in competitions and just observe all the time and
	you have never seen such good manners!  Never ONCE have I
	so much as heard a raised voice at such an event, no joke.

> I was really glad they werent packing. In fact,
> recently there was this soldier, on leave before going to Afghanistan-
> he was drinking vodka 2 little bottles at a time, and bragging to the
> girl next to him about how many drugs he took before he shot his M-60
> in live fire excercises back at the base.

	Shame nobody recorded him and made a present of the tape
	to his CO or the JAG office.  If he was telling the truth
	he needs to be taken out of uniform and placed into prison
	ASAP.  If he was bullshitting, he needs a lesson in the
	proper decorum of a military man in all public places.

> There was somebody who was
> technically just who you would want to be armed- a trained soldier.

	Not so.  Putting on a uniform and getting some lessons does
	not a proper soldier make.

> And
> I guarantee you that if that guy had a gun on an airplane, he would be
> more dangerous than any 5 terrorists.

	Probably right on that one, pal.
> 
> Undercover air marshalls with bullets that are less likely to cause
> depressurisation- that sounds good to me. The average gun owner that I
> know, even some of whom are good friends of mine- no thanks.

	The average gun owner I would feel comfortable with.  Even
	slightly below average would probably pass my muster, but
	the lower 10% would scare the shit out of me enough to 	
	never get into a plane that I was not piloting myself.