[TheForge] Superquench/hardening power hammer dies

[Jerry Smith]

I don't see the need to harden mild steel for the stated purpose. If you 
want hardened steel use a tool steel then have it professionally hardened 
if you don't own HT equipment.

Jerry

At 04:10 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote:
>Isn't this the whole point of using superquench?  Take mild steel and
>bring it up to the hardness of unhardened tool steel (or better)?  Mild
>steel is easier to work, generally cheaper (though scrounging makes any
>steel pretty cheap), etc.  If those aren't sufficient advantages, then
>use the tool steel and be done with it.
>
>Superquench is cheap and easy to make.  The Basic I is not hard to get.
>  Try it.  You'll like it.  If there's a question whether it will work on
>a large die, try it on a block of mild steel of the appropriate weight,
>testing hardness before and after.  (Machineries Handbook probably
>describes methods...)  If it hardens sufficiently, go ahead and make the
>die.  If not, you're not out much.
>
>BTW, I prefer the name "superquench" so as NOT to confuse the issue.
>That's what it's been called from the get-go.  Note that it's not called
>"super-hard quench" or "magic quench" or whatever.  "Super" is just
>Latin for
>"over , above; besides, beyond, moreover; remaining, over and above".
>(http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=super&ending=)
>Superquench provides an action not available in most other quench media,
>aside from those made with lye.  Or so Robb Gunter tells us.
>
>Bruce
>NJ
>
> >>> osan at netlabs.net 12/29/2004 2:08:09 PM >>>
>
>
>PlumDon at aol.com wrote:
> > The recent superquench discussion has prompted a question: do we
>really  need
> > to heat treat our power hammer dies?
>
>         I certainly don't think open dies need to be heat treated,
>assuming
>they are made of a suitable tool steel that will be tough enough for
>the
>job of mushing hot metal, but it can be beneficial.  The heat treat
>doesn't have to bring up a high hardness.  4140 is only at something
>like C37 at its highest measured toughness.  This isn't very hard, but
>
>at its peak, 4140 is a very tough steel.
>
>         Closed dies, on the other hand, are much more likely to require
>some
>heat treatement in order to ensure reasonable life, especially where
>any
>thinner sections and sharp corners may exist.
>
>  > I have some of 4140  and 5160 and do
> > not think they have been hardened and tempered.
>
>         But they are nevertheless a world tougher than A36.
>
> > I grind them  back to shape
> > about every six months on my 2x72 Grizzly. Not a REAL heavy user  but
>they do see
> > some action. I wonder if heat treating out weighs the gain from
>not.
>
>         A proper heat treat, while not essential is still beneficial
>IMO.  It
>leaves the steel in a far better condition than if it is left in an
>annealed state.
> >
> > I got the impression from a couple of the posts that many of the
>power
> > hammer dies are not hardened.
>
>         Many are not, from what I've seen.
>
>         I've had the same discussion regarding hot tooling.  Some folks
>are of
>the opinion that a punch need not be heat treated because it is being
>driven into hot steel.  I can accept this as valid, especially fro
>plain
>tool steels, but I do believe that doing a proper heat treat will leave
>
>the tool in better condition for its intended duties as opposed to
>leaving it in its from-the-mill anneal.  This is especially true of hot
>
>work alloys susch as S7 and H13, as well as high speed steels like M2.
>
>M2 in a fully annealed state, while far tougher than mild steels, is
>still very soft compared to the hardened state.  I have machined
>annealed M2 with hard M2 bits on the lathe with no trouble.  I would
>not
>use M2 for top tooling without heat treat if I didn't have to.
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