[TheForge] disintegrating welding rod

[David E. Smucker]

I don't think so Bruce.  Welding rod / wire it very tough in almost all 
cases -- alloy content is controled so that it is not "hot short" in my 
terms.  I have used many tig welds in forging applications and have never 
had them fail.  I think this failure is most likely a lack of penataration 
with unwelded metal at the root.  This will cause problems just like a cold 
shunt.  A weld in this type of application needs to be a full depth groove 
or V weld.  You want to go into the fire with 100 percent metal -- not 
something with a crack that will just grow under forging.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod


> Contribution from a non-weldor:
>
> Is it possible that a weld bead could be red-short?  Electric welding
> is a melting operation, so it's not clear to me that red-short wire or
> rod would be a disadvantage there.  Clearly, such a material would fall
> apart when forged, however.
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
>>>> sunironworks at yahoo.com 12/23/2004 10:07:16 AM >>>
> Yeah, I thought so too. Could be I got some gunk in there or like you
> say the different harndesses made a difference. And Ralph's suggestion
> that the mechanical distortion caused by heating (especially on a
> weldment that's of a different hardness or grain stucture than the
> base) is a pausible addition. I'll play with different welds and rods
> and see if i can learn something. I have to fix this problem on this
> particular bar this morning, so I'll tig it up again--carefully, with
> good penetration and cleanliness--normalize and see what happens.
>
> Thanks and happy holidays all,
>
> JRF
> --- Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>
>> In theory, TIG welds should be the least susceptable to that
> problem.
>>
>> I've found that running the weldment through a normalizing cycle
>> first
>> helps...PF
>>
>> TodEstesRN at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> >In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:29:52 PM Central Standard Time,
>> >xlch58 at swbell.net writes:
>> >Justin Fellenz wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>All,
>> >>
>> >>I've been finding that electric welds, especially tig,
> disintegrate
>> in
>> >>the forge. Last session I cheated and tigged a couple of pieces of
>> bar
>> >>together rather than forge-weldng them. I used a general purpose
>> mild
>> >>steel gas welding rod (probably RG-45, copper coated) and 2 1/2"
>> round
>> >>bars of 1018 or 1020, or, my supplier said, maybe a38. I cleaned
>> the
>> >>rods up with a flap wheel, beveled the edges, and burnt em
>> together.
>> >>Looked like good penetration,a little sparking from junk on the
>> metal
>> >>but not too bad. But when I heated it up and beat on it with a
>> hammer,
>> >>the filler just sort of diappeared leaving gaps between the bar
>> ends.
>> >>
>> >>Maybe I didnt get it all the way clean and carbon or scale
> deposits
>> or
>> >>whatever heated up and blew the filler or the HAZ metal out. My
>> best
>> >>guess. Anyone else experience this? I find that mig welds hold up
>> ok as
>> >>long as the penetration's really good, but where it's not it looks
>> like
>> >>the HAZ again just kind of powders and the bead pulls away from
> the
>> >>bar.
>> >>
>> >>Thoughts?
>> >>
>> >>Cheers,
>> >>
>> >>JRF
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Don't know why that happened but have had good luck Oxy/Acy gas
>> welding then
>> >forging.
>> >
>> >
>> >Time enough for sleep in the grave.
>> >Tod Estes
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