[TheForge] OT rant (armor)

[Andrew Vida]

Justin Fellenz wrote:

> Basically, my thinking is that if I can say to someone, somewhere
> (finding that person'll take some doing, but...) that there exists a
> group of skilled smiths across the country who are willing and able to
> build what needs to be built--a production force that can look to the
> government like "an entity"--someone might see a need. As a small group
> we can be more nimble and responsive than the enormous bureaucracies
> that lie at the heart (if you'll forgive the inaccurate metaphor) of
> huge companies.

	In principle, this is very sound thinking.  In practice, it would have 
to be proven.  Not the ability to do as you say, but the ability to get 
the "in".  The Haliburtons of this world are not primarily interested in 
being responsive, or even of doing a good job necessarily.  They are 
interested in making extortionate profits and getting away with whatever 
they feel they can.  I've worked in the defense industry and what goes 
on there defies belief.  I once replaced, IIRC, either a tiny RF amp or 
a TWT in an ALR-69 coutermeasures unit.  The billing work accidentally 
came down with the work order.  The 2 hour job that included a board 
that cost the company no more than perhaps $100 (if that) billed out at 
$268,000.00.  When I brought this to the attention of the Director of 
Engineering, a flaming homo who fancied me a lot and ALWAYS had a smile 
on his face for me, he turned ashen on the spot and got unequivocal with 
me when he said that I never saw this, that it didn't exist, it was a 
dream, and that I will speak to nobody about it.  Nothing untoward going 
there, right?  That's how these outfits operate.

 > Productwise, I just kinds stole Reis's idea of making
> armor for trucks. The shapes are pretty simple, a bend here and there,
> a weld or two, a few holes for bolts.

	I've toyed with ideas about armor on and off for years, mainly body 
armor.  I've wondered about sandwiching smoething like rubber between 
two layers of metal plate.  A projectile strikes the outer plate, 
dissipating much of the KE in a radiating pattern into the softer 
material.  As it pierces the plate, the energy is further dissipated 
over a much larger area and is hopefully diminished to the point where 
the inner metallic plate will stop it from progressing further.  I've 
thought about sandwiching niobium between steel plates.  Annealed Nb is 
VERY tenacious... almost sticky and I've wondered if it would have the 
energy dissipating qualities to slow smallet projectiles down.  One 
could also do multiple layers.  Each time a projectile meets a hard 
layer, it must once again deliver sufficient impulse in order to punch 
through.  That kills a lot of the KE.  I don't think this strategy would 
work for hollow charge weapons such as RPGs.

 > I'm thinking an armor kit that
> you can box up and ship over to fit on a given truck. We'd need a truck
> of a given type to make a blueprint that could be distributed to the
> group. COuld be that certain shops have certain abilities and not
> others--one with the material handling equipment to manage big pieces,
> one with machining ability, one with an ironworker, one with TIG for
> aluminum, maybe. Maybe everybody does whole pieces, or some of both.
> But thats getting WAY ahead of where we are. Mostly, if a few of you
> actually have the time and interest and facilities to participate, then
> it's something I can try to shop. No point shaking the tree if there's
> nothing behind the plan.

	Well, I have access to a 75 ton ironworker and a 130 ton.


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