Ultra long YAK: hit DEL now! Re: [TheForge] Shortcut Sword? [LONGISH] even longer

[Andy Vida]

Kevin Donahoe wrote:

> I think cyanide was give in low doses to combat syphillis about the turn of
> the last century.  Anything actually can have a toxic dose... (later) just
> occurred to me that may have been strychnine...

	It was in fact strychnine.  I believe mercury was also
	used.
> 
> and it has ruined much of this world.  To what precise end I
> >       cannot say, but one cannot examine the conditions we see today,
> >       observe its astonishing uniformity across cultures that have
> >       traditionally been highly disparate, and reasonably conclude
> >       that there is no intentional mechanism at work.  To so conclude
> >       would be either insane, disingenuous, of stupid beyond all
> >       forgiveness.
> >
> 
> Much for the better I think.  Not only have we exported McD's and Starbucks,
> but also certain ideals that are better than those found in some other
> cultures,

	By what standard are they better?  I would not call what we have
	better, especially for the manifodl "primitive" people upon
	whom our values have been forced.  Their lives and cultures have
	been utterly destroyed.  I've spent the last several years living
	among indians.  Their communities are generally squalid, horrible
	places where alcoholism is rife.  It's pretty sad to bear witness
	to.  They didn't do that to themselves.  It was done TO them by
	agents; not by their choice, but by force.  Good old judeo-xtian
	juggernaut steam rolling anything in its way.  It may be good for
	the members of the steamroller set (and even that is arguable), 
	but I don't think that too many of the people who have been on 
	the receiving end of the treatment would agree that the ideals
	that were "exported" to them made their lives better.  I would 
	bet good money that they would say those ideals sucked rod.

> ie, rule of law (as it's being erroded here at home...wonder if
> it's being diluted as we send it out?), general principles found in the
> Declaration of Independence and Constition, etc, etc., checks and balances
> of three tiered gov't, general ideals of individual liberty that I think are
> still valid, if dillute. 

> As president  (past-president) of a little local gun club I've found the
> constitution established by the well meaning founders only holds up as well
> as those presently willing to recognize it. 

	This is so true.

> Wonder if we could get an armed group to sit in
> the gallery of each branch ;) yeah, that's the ticket.

	I'd do it if it didn't mean a bullet in my brain.
> 
> >
> >       People don't WANT to decide for themselves.  Why do you think
> >       we have representative government?  People that wish to govern
> >       themselves would not want representatives speaking and acting
> >       on their behalf.  That is the great lie about America, about
> >       what it is.  It is a huge lie.  America is not only not a free
> >       nation, but was never meant to be one.  I know this is pure
> >       heresy for most folks, but this is how I see it.
> 
> Well, yes, I realize that, true democracy can be too cumbersome and NEVER
> get anything done, or worse, work on a rule of mob.  I'm quite happy to
> expect leaders to lead, and fall on their face if so.  Nobody's perfect, but
> I'd be happy if they lead, not follow the polls.  I suppose that Bush43 is
> coming as close to that as I've seen in a while.

	Without heavy involvement of John Q Public AND his willingness
	(note that doesn't mean EAGERNESS) to pick up his rifle when
	need be, our constitution isn't worth wiping our collective butt
	with.  The circus we bear witness to in the media conceals the
	real deal.  People deal with the ruses, never facing the real
	issues.

> >
> >       Not on my end it hasn't been.  About ten years ago I engaged in
> >       an exercise that took me a couple of days to complete.  I wrote
> >       my own constitution under the assumption that it would replace
> >       the current US version.
> 
> Most interesting prospect, and quite daunting. 

	It really was.  It's clear that any constitution is not worth the
	paper it is written on without the right support of people.

> I occassionally reread some
> of those historical documents and marvel at the eloquence... perhaps you
> recognize my own cumbersome manner :)
> 
> >       people from themselves.  No body of law will prevent evil men
> >       from doing evil.  We have a constitution that would , were we an
> >       honest and just people, serve the ends of liberty and prosperity
> >       beautifully.  What I observe in this nation today is nothing of
> >       that, and it is getting uglier and more ominous by the day.
> 
> Here! here!  some of that lack of accountability comes from our very own
> embarrassment of riches and indulgence of weakness.  c'est le vie ;)

	You said it.
> 
> >
> >       "Society", like "the state" doesn't exist.  It is an artificial
> >       mental construct designed to pummel people into doing another's
> 
> So's money an artificial construct, and a main reason I provide a service to
> "society"

	Your point?
> 
> >  > The failure of the
> >  > progressive argument is that human nature won't change, we're not
> >  > perfectable.
> >
> >       Human nature hasn't changed an iota in all of its written
> >       history.  What makes you think it will change at some time
> >       down the road?  Genetic engineering?  That's a tiger's tail
> >       I firmly believe is better left un-pulled, not that that
> >       will stop "them".
> 
> ARRRRGGGGGGGhhhhh, I hate when I do that! (proof reading what I meant
> instead of what I wrote)  I meant that the progressive argument is that
> human nature is perfectable, if we just pass the right laws/prohibitions to
> reflect a certain ideal.  I think that both conservatives and liberals are
> equally guilty in different arenas...and therefore the immutable march to
> bigger republicrat gov't.

	OK, now you make sense.  I was wondering about your seemingly
	nonsequitur statemenet.
> 
> >  > same thing... I knew there weren't 12 bearded old men, masons, or
> >  > rothchilds, manipulating humanity.
> >
> >       Here I must also disagree.  There are men of discipline and
> >       knowledge in this world.  A few examples: ultra orthodox Jews
> >       are a prime example of uniformity of vision and social cohesion.
> >       The Jesuits are another example.  Note that these are both
> >       religious orders.  Power, as religion, can (and I believe has)
> 
> Yes, most is attainable through discipline, though (maybe) more is
> accomplished through serendipity. 

	I don't for a minute believe that such men leave ANYTHING to
	serendipity.

> And sometimes I think a general tendency
> of humanity is easily seen as the invisible hand.  Doesn't mean it exists...
> outside of localized groups.

	Localized groups are what we're talking about.  They are localized
	in the sense of unity of purpose and vision, at the innermost
	circles.
> 
> >       A more accessible example for Americans would perhaps be kids
> >       and hunting.  Today, many kids in the USA would find it very
> >       difficult to go out and hunt.  Is it due to their nature?  No.
> >       It is due to their mental training.  Other kids are raised
> >       with a squirrel gun and shoot dinner on a regular basis, feeling
> >       no sorrow for the fate of their quarry.  Is one "right" and the
> >       other "wrong"?  I doubt it.  I can go and shoot to eat.  I don't
> >       like it because of the way I was raised.  The one thing I cannot
> >       abide is the suffering of prey.  Were I to savagely wound a
> >       deer, for example, and cause it prolonged agony, I think that
> >       would come as close to killing me as anything could.  I have
> >       known others who are not as affected by such things.  Nature
> >       is involved only in the sense that our natures allow us to be
> >       formed according to very broad spectrum of possibilities.
> >
> 
> It's the job of prey to be food, of course, and were I to be a hunter, I'd
> definitely want to be capable of a clean kill, but then there is that aspect
> of pain making one accutely aware of life.  Nothing I pursue, mind you, but
> try to keep it in perspective.  I can have sympathy, but I sure as hell
> don't "feel your pain" gag!

	For me it is soemthign else.  I hold my position because
	I am able to be a true coward and pay someone else to do my ugly
	bidding.  If I had to, I would become a killing machine and I would
	get used to it.  I'm just too spoiled these days.
> 
> Oh, and I'm referring to ABANA @ Richmond, KY next July...BEER'S ON ME... I
> mean BOB! jeesh.

	Oh, yah.. I knew that... no, really, I did.  I swear.  No, really.

	Wow, just a few months away.  I will make it a point to be there.
	I want to see the mastermyr work.