[TheForge] Response to my post on working alone
mata Iaia
[email protected]
Sat Nov 1 15:20:01 2003
Thank you to the many of you who have responded to my post.
There are some very good ideas and thoughts I will make use of. Several people said the most dangerous things/times in a shop are having other people there. I Think this is part of what I've been experiencing. I used to work alone always, and now I have my husband and employees there, and it does make a difference. He is particularly protective of me working alone. and I plan to share your responses and work out some kind of check in/saftey plan with him.
Although I do not make a living at metalwork, there has never been anything that gives me as much personal and individual pleasure and I hope to never give it up.
Thanks again.
Mata
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Working alone in shop (Aaron Silver)
2. RE: Working alone in shop (Mark A. Pesetsky)
3. Re: Working alone in shop (Bruce Freeman)
4. Re: Charcoal and Jon Sloan (jon.sloan)
5. Re: ABANA Web site (Darrell)
6. Re: Re: Working alone in shop (Demon Buddha)
7. Re: Plasma cutter comparison (Harland Johnson)
8. Shepherd's crook & shipping (Catherine Jo Morgan)
9. Working alone (Catherine Jo Morgan)
10. RE: Shepherd's crook & shipping (H and P Foster)
11. Re: Plasma cutter comparison (Kenny O.)
12. Re: Working alone (Demon Buddha)
13. Re: Working alone (Jerry Frost)
14. RE: Abana Tape rentals (Rich Maynard)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:44:38 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: Aaron Silver
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Working alone in shop
Reply-To: [email protected]
At 09:00 PM 10/30/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>I feel positively safe in the shop. With the forge fired up, its nice and
>cozy, and I have never cut myself so badly I needed stitches, or even a
>butterfly bandage when working by myself. Usually the worst injury I get
>is bruises on my legs from bumping into junk I should have put away.
This is about where I am as well. I don't fear going into the shop, however
I do try to be aware of my mental state. I remember one night where I was
trying to get started and kept tripping over stuff I hadn't put away in the
past. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, simply take some time to put it
away, right? Instead, I found myself irrationally p****d off, and ready to
chuck things around. At that point I realized that I was in no mental shape
to work with hot metal. I went right back in the house for a beer and some
mind-numbing TV.
As for being mesmerized by the action of the powerhammer, I have two comments:
1) What we do with metal is magical. Within reason, don't lose that feeling
2) The first couple of times you get too mesmerized, you'll wreck your
piece. No big deal... It just adds to the humble pile. After creating scrap
that you've invested a fair amount of time into a couple times, you'll find
yourself muttering "pay attention" as you work. It'll balance out. :-)
Aaron Silver
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "Mark A. Pesetsky"
To:
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Working alone in shop
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:52:59 -0500
Reply-To: [email protected]
2.) Set it up that I would call my wife each day, at the end of the day.
(She was still in Knoxville, I was in Brasstown, NC)
I did trhe sword forging class with Don Fogg back in 98 in Brasstown at =
the
JC Campbell school (http://www.dfoggknives.com/JCC98.htm) I am in the =
middle
of the bottom row. I have to tell ya, the mornings there were some of =
the
most beautiful that I have EVER seen. The class was in October, so the
leaves were just in their prime...I often tell my wife that she has to =
see
that Countryside some day...Especially where the blacksmith shop is on =
the
school grounds...Sits just above a valley...Man, the memories...
Mark
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:08:01 -0500
From: "Bruce Freeman"
To:
Subject: [TheForge] Re: Working alone in shop
Reply-To: [email protected]
I have to agree strongly with the following statement. I've known
people who are jinxes in the shop. You're doing something, and suddenly
aware that they're "helping" in some way that's going to get you or them
killed or maimed! Total lack of common sense combined with the desire
to be helpful!!! I have had to tell such people in no uncertain terms
to stand back and NOT to help unless I specifically asked and instructed
them!
Then there's the case of the fellow who whacked a 12" high-speed
grinding wheel with an iron bar, and walked away. The next guy to try
to use the grinder DIED when the wheel exploded when it came up to
speed.
I also believe you have to be perceptive of your own mental state.
Ever notice how sometimes you can't do math, or spell, or write with a
legible hand? Or how sometimes you can puzzle over a problem while
other times you can think of a solution quickly? I think our brains
don't always function on an even keel. Different abilities turn on and
off from time to time. Being tired turns a lot of your brain off,
including good judgement and common sense. So making an effort to
decide whether you are capable of doing a job NOW can be very
important.
Bruce
NJ
>>> [email protected] 10/30/2003 11:49:39 PM >>>
> When I'm forging it is so hypnotic and wonderful, but I also
> sometimes feel afraid when I am working alone.
>
> Have/do any of you ever experience this? Any thoughts?
I worry more about injury when I'm in a shop with other people. I
seem to be able to focus on what I'm doing and at the same time think
ahead a bit to what comes next as I'm doing what comes now. But
there's no way you can do that for the other guy. And you can't watch
the other guy(s) all the time.
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:46:25 -0800
From: "jon.sloan"
Organization: california state university, northridge
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Charcoal and Jon Sloan
Reply-To: [email protected]
Yea, most everyone here is ok. From the news (even the local here) you would
think that everyone is in dire straights. From LA to San Diego there are
several millions of people and maybe a million homes and businesses. Although
our hearts go out to the several hundred who lost their homes and the couple
of dozen who lost their lives - it is really a tiny percentage. The property
damage from fires here is trivial when compared to hurricanes in the
southeast or flooding and tornados in the midwest but wow do we get the
press!!!! Anyway, when all is done and the fires put out, most of the
mountains here should burn every decade or so. Unfortunately, we have
prevented them from doing so and disasters like this occur.
Jon
Phlip wrote:
> Hey, Jon, just checking on you, want to know you're OK. It's likely a bit
> early for you over there (Hel, it's a bit early over here ;-) but want to
> let you know I'm thinking about you...
>
> Not to mention, the rest of you Californians...
>
> Saint Phlip,
> CoDoLDS
>
> "When in doubt, heat it up and hit it with a hammer."
> Blacksmith's credo.
>
> If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
> cat.
>
> Never a horse that cain't be rode,
> And never a rider who cain't be throwed....
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
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> Login: [email protected]
> password: anvil
> ___________
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Darrell"
To:
Subject: Re: [TheForge] ABANA Web site
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:16:36 -0800
Reply-To: [email protected]
Roger,
If you were not told that you could not tape, what you tape is YOUR work and
you can do what you want with it.
Darrell
http://www.machinemaster.com
> Roger R Degner wrote:
>
> > Not sure of the Rocky Mt Smiths present board members thinking but in
1999 I
> > also taped their conference and just before I left they asked me not to
put
> > any of that footage in our library. Kind of a shame too as it was
Francis's
> > last demo before he passed on. I believe they have it available to
there
> > members only.
> > Roger Degner
--__--__--
Message: 6
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Working alone in shop
From: Demon Buddha
Organization: Eventide Forge
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:26:02 -0800
Reply-To: [email protected]
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:08:01 -0500, Bruce Freeman
wrote:
> Then there's the case of the fellow who whacked a 12" high-speed
> grinding wheel with an iron bar, and walked away. The next guy to try
> to use the grinder DIED when the wheel exploded when it came up to
> speed.
I bore witness to one of those in HS. Kid went on the surface
grinder without instructor's permission and slams the wheel into
work. My back was turned when I heard a really creepy sounding
glassy-metallic BANG. Nobody was injured... well, nobody but
the surface grinder. Sadly, the dimwit that caused the accident
survived and has by now probably passed his genes on to another
generation of lowatts. Lowatt == low wattage intellect, in case
anyone's wondering. :)
> I also believe you have to be perceptive of your own mental state. Ever
> notice how sometimes you can't do math, or spell, or write with a
> legible hand? Or how sometimes you can puzzle over a problem while
> other times you can think of a solution quickly? I think our brains
> don't always function on an even keel. Different abilities turn on and
> off from time to time.
That can be so annoying. You KNOW how to do this or that, yet
you just can't dredge up the function at a given moment.
> Being tired turns a lot of your brain off,
I must be tired a lot.
>
--__--__--
Message: 7
From: "Harland Johnson"
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:43:09 -0600
Subject: [TheForge] Re: Plasma cutter comparison
Reply-To: [email protected]
When you get close to the max recommended cutting depth, not only does the
plasma torch have to travel slower, they can leave a raw edge that looks
more like an acetylene cut than the flawless cut that you wanted a plasma
torch in the first place. For that matter, a well adjusted, acetylene torch
has often been used in the same CNC setup that accepts the plasma torch to
cut steel with virtual or at least near plasma torch quality.
Dann Johnson
Ed F writes:
> Try http://harrisweldingsupplies.com/ for the hypertherm.
>
> Their website sucks but their price couldn't be beat for a Powermax 1000.
>
> I was looking at the 380 but decided to lay out the extra cash to have a
> machine that would work well on a home made CNC table and cut thicker stuff
> with.
>
> Hypertherm does not use a high-frequency start. A friend has an Esab with
> the freaky start and it's ruined 2 fax machines and caused problems with the
> phone and PC's. His phone rings when the arc fails to start properly (when
> it's on his CNC table). That was the clincher for me between a Hyperthem
> and a Thermal Arc brand.
>
> Oh yah, the Cut master 38 does NOT use high frequency start either, I think.
> Their bigger units do at the moment. Here is the best price I found on that
> one:
> http://www.ramweldingsupply.com/products-view.mcic?s=2336
>
> Take a look at the speed the 3/8 range cutters do for the thickest stuff you
> plan to cut and make sure it's reasonable for what you want to do. I think
> it's typically about 10"/min for 3/8 material which is awfully slow to me.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Armstrong"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:01 PM
> Subject: [TheForge] Plasma cutter comparison
>
>
>> I'm in the process of comparing the following plasma cutters for eminent
>> purchase:
>>
>> Lincoln Pro-Cut 25
>>
>> Hobart Air Force 400
>>
>> Hypertherm Power Max 380
>>
>> My price range is $1200. - 1300. (US) and 3/8" max. cutting ability is
>> plenty.
>>
>> Anybody have any experience/information or other suggestions to share?
>> Or perhaps knowledge of consumer report info on same?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> DanA
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cameron Stoker"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Responses to "Possible new TH design"
>>
>>
>> > Thought I should respond to this thread -
>> >
>> > I bought a set of plans from Bruce several years ago for the
>> > grasshopper hammer, and they sat quietly for some time, but about a
>> > month ago I ended up needing to clean out my scrap pile, and realized
>> > there were many shapes of stock appropriate for the GH. Spent about
>> two
>> > and a half weeks of more off than on working at building the
>> > grasshopper hammer, and finished it about the beginning of this month.
>> > I took some photos of the building at several stages, and one or two
>> of
>> > the finished hammer. I'll see about posting them to the photo site.
>> >
>> > I have since been very busy and haven't been working on projects where
>> > a treadle hammer was the appropriate tool so I have probably only used
>> > the hammer for about an hour. The bearings are just starting to
>> > break-in and get really smooth - I sometimes just bounce the head a
>> bit
>> > while waiting between heats because it's fascinating to watch the
>> > mechanism work.
>> >
>> > I think this hammer will really come into its prime when I've had time
>> > to make a few die sets. I mainly just used it with some top tools over
>> > a lead block to clean up lines in some bronze repouse. Very nice to
>> > have the all the adjustments available. The action is very smooth.
>> >
>> > Thanks Bruce
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cameron Stoker
>> > [email protected]
>> > "May you run like a vicu�a!"
>> > pgp key @ http://keys.stoker.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > Login: [email protected]
>> > password: anvil
>> > ___________
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> password: anvil
>> ___________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
Dann Johnson
--__--__--
Message: 8
From: "Catherine Jo Morgan"
To: "Blacksmithing mailing list"
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:47:47 -0500
Subject: [TheForge] Shepherd's crook & shipping
Reply-To: [email protected]
If you don't want to make it, that's one thing. But if you'd like to
make it and it's just the shipping costs holding you back, why not ask
the customer if she's willing to pay that much? Maybe she is.
Catherine Jo Morgan
Morgan Sculpture: iron & mixed media vessels
Artist Journal Online - Hand Forged Vessels:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0120691/
mailto:[email protected]
--__--__--
Message: 9
From: "Catherine Jo Morgan"
To: "Blacksmithing mailing list"
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:00:58 -0500
Subject: [TheForge] Working alone
Reply-To: [email protected]
I did hurt myself once when my Makita 4" grinder kicked back. It had a
fairly flat knotted wirebrush mounted on it with no safety guard, and
tore up my left knuckle quite a bit. Later a friend who's a nurse said I
should have gone to the emergency room to get it stitched up, to avoid
scar tissue. I was lucky tho and in time it healed fine with full
flexibility.
Agree that woodworking shops are more dangerous than ours. A woodworker
friend lost concentration for a second and ran her knuckle into the
bandsaw blade. That WAS a trip to the emergency room plus plastic
surgeon. Luckily we had the two workshops on an intercom so she could
call me for help right away.
When I REALLY got hurt - bad fractures - it was when I slipped in the
kitchen.
After that fall I wouldn't go anywhere for a long time without a cell
phone strapped on me somewhere. Now I've relaxed more. I do think it's
important to have a phone handy in the workshop, preferably with 911
already on the speed dial. If it's possible to arrange an intercom or
radio system with one or more other workshops where people work alone,
this is ideal. (If you're not already in yelling distance.) Those loud
alarms might work too, the kind where you pull the safety out and a
siren goes off - as long as there's someone within hearing distance.
The worst danger is going into shock so fast that you lose any idea of
calling for help. I read in Fine Woodworking years ago that this
happened to a woodcarver at a conference. He cut himself really badly
and was just staring at it numbly, in a daze, when someone rushed over
and helped him. Till I read that story, I hadn't realized this could
happen.
After lunch and late afternoon are special times to be careful. Most
people have a slump by then. Breaks help a lot, plus not eating too much
sugar or alcohol.
Not feeling safe is a psychological thing. There could be some belief
triggering it - unrelated (and often irrational) guilt, or a sense of
not deserving such a great kind of work with such wonderful tools. Only
the person can figure this out. Sometimes a brief ritual can make all
the difference - something like envisioning a protective shield around
the forge. Prayer works for many people. If that doesn't help - maybe
arranging for a friend to call to check on you regularly would help.
Just keep playing around with ideas till you find a way to feel safe.
Catherine Jo Morgan
Morgan Sculpture: iron & mixed media vessels
Artist Journal Online - Hand Forged Vessels:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0120691/ 706-754-3812 mailto:[email protected]
--__--__--
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:08:19 -0500
From: H and P Foster
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Shepherd's crook & shipping
To: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
I agree, if the customer really likes your shepherds hook over all others,
and is willing to pay the shipping.....why not? I have shipped heavy tripod
cooking sets and chandeliers from eastern Canada to the West coast of the
States and Canada, with the customer paying the shipping.
The internet is a new and exciting way of shopping for many people and if
they find something they like and like you, then they will pay the cost,
even though they could probably find someone down the road and around the
corner who could make something similar for less.
Three cheers for the internet.
Harry Foster
Rusty Dog Forge
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Catherine Jo Morgan
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:48 PM
To: Blacksmithing mailing list
Subject: [TheForge] Shepherd's crook & shipping
If you don't want to make it, that's one thing. But if you'd like to
make it and it's just the shipping costs holding you back, why not ask
the customer if she's willing to pay that much? Maybe she is.
Catherine Jo Morgan
Morgan Sculpture: iron & mixed media vessels
Artist Journal Online - Hand Forged Vessels:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0120691/
mailto:[email protected]
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--__--__--
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:22:16 -0800
From: "Kenny O."
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Plasma cutter comparison
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