[TheForge] stair case design

Mon May 19 05:24:01 2003

As long as the attachments stay the same the design does not have to be 
straight vertical bars. Draw the pitch and handrail to scale, mark off the 
attachment points (steps, the upper attachment does not have to be directly 
above the lower) and make some copies. Then draw a bunch of stuff you think 
they might like (Buy$), narrow it down to things you can make. Overlapping 
repetitive different panels might be easier for you to make and give them 
the look they want. Hope that explains my thoughts (It's early and my brain 
might not be fully functional yet...)
L Brown

At 09:05 PM 5/18/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>All of the balusters are in the same place on each step
>The client really likes a style that is very loose old world style
>She doesn't seem as fond of a repeated single element (too bad I think that
>would be a much easier design solution as far as hiding the holes)
>I do like the idea of one panel per step and I think I will design something
>like this idea and present it to her  seems like a less problematic solution
>and could look very nice
>Thanks I'm learning something new every day.
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry and Pat Brown" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 4:48 AM
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] stair case design
>
>
> >
> > Are the ballasters in the same place on each step? Perhaps make a panel
> > design that repeats for each step, covers the lower holes and bolts to the
> > bottom of the handrail and into the step. One piece per step and then
> > figure out what you have to do for the newel post.
> > L Brown
> >
> >
> > At 11:55 PM 5/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >Has anyone had any experience with removing ballasters from a wooden
> > >staircase 6"on center and building an iron railing that covers the  2
>holes
> > >in  each of the steps? I have a potentil client that would like this done
> > >using the existing cap (to save money  of course)i would love to have my
> > >first railing job but I am wondering if trying to deal with the existing
> > >holes is more trouble than its worth.
> > >It is a straight rail and would be my first .
> > >I am thinking about making ovel shaped plates that would cover the holes
>in
> > >the steps with a ring welded to each plate and the bottom rail mounted to
> > >thetop of the  ring.
> > >I am not quite sure if I should dismantle the staircase and make frames
>for
> > >each panel on site.
> > >  I have helped do a curved staircase where we did just that
> > >we bent flat bar for the bottom rail than made a matching one for the top
> > >welded verticles on each end making sure of plumbness then strengthened
>it
> > >up with temporary cross bracing
> > >took it back to the shop.
> > >built it in the shop and put it back in place.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "gblacksmith" <[email protected]>
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:08 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: How fareth the pro smith?
> > >
> > >
> > > > An excellent series of observations, Andrew.
> > > >
> > > >                                 Grant Marcoux
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Andrew Vida" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 1:44 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: How fareth the pro smith?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > RIES NIEMI wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The economy seems to be a lot more complicated than it used to be,
> > >which
> > > > I
> > > > > > think, overall, is a good thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an interesting perpsective.  Many folks would hold
> > > > > an opinion in wide variance with this, cleaving to the idea
> > > > > that simple things are better.  Certainly easier to comprehend.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > There doesnt seem to be any one answer- lots of people are busy as
>can
> > > > be,
> > > > > > others are going broke.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've noticed this as well.  The middle region seems to be
> > > > > narrowing very sharply. Those who are in a good marketing
> > > > > method do betterthat those not.  Marketing is more important,
> > > > > generally speaking, than what you make or how well you make it.
> > > > > A clear example of this lies in the horribly made junk from
> > > > > Mexico.  It was selling like hotcakes with the more-money-than-
> > > > > brains crowd in Scottsdale and Paradise Valley.  Marketing
> > > > > is pretty much the be all of such businesses.  Combine great
> > > > > marketing with superior craft and you may be cooking.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think the career arc of a craftsman, someone who devotes their
> > >entire
> > > > life
> > > > > > to becoming as good as they can get at a skill, is not so tied to
>the
> > > > > > economy in general.
> > > > >
> > > > > But they are not immune to the demands of marketing.  I would
> > > > > assert that they have been heavily into marketing at one time
> > > > > or another.  But this doesn't mean they have been conscious of
> > > > > it.  I know people that market themselves like pros and don't
> > > > > even know it.  The combination of their personality, skill,
> > > > > and mannerisms just naturally attract interest.
> > > > >
> > > > > > People still want Sam Maloof chairs or Albert Paley
> > > > > > tables, even though they cost more every year and there is a two
>year
> > > > > > waiting list.
> > > > >
> > > > > As the rich (the smart rich) tend to remain so, they are
> > > > > never at a loss to make large capital purchases for home
> > > > > and office.  Those are the people and businesses the single
> > > > > smith needs to catch the eye of.  Easier said than done.
> > > > > My recommendation is to use whatever means and connections
> > > > > you have at your disposal.
> > > > >
> > > > > > On the other hand, if what you are selling is a twisted plant
>hook,
> > > > > > indistiguishable from those made by 200 other smiths around the
> > >country,
> > > > its
> > > > > > likely you are going to be having a harder time when the economy
> > >slips.
> > > > >
> > > > > Agreed.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Geography certainly plays a part in it as well. The better known
> > > > > > bladesmiths, art blacksmiths, or high end ornamental guys are
>already
> > > > > > geographically diversified. The guy just starting out is reliant
>on
> > >his
> > > > > > immediate neighborhood.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's why you want to place yourself in places where the money
> > > > > is such as NYC, Scottsdale, Santa Barbara, Naples, etc.  I also
> > > > > think that making yourself a very social animal can be very
> > > > > helpful.  Becoming well known and liked in the community can
> > > > > never hurt.  Getting socially connected with the arts people
> > > > > and other money-rich sectors is a good way to make that first
> > > > > great break for yourself.  That is what Mark Costabi did (he's
> > > > > a NYC painter).  Many revile him as a charlatan, and infact he is
> > > > > a flavor of that, but he was a brilliant self-marketeer whose
> > > > > paintings sell for tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars
> > > > > apiece.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's much like the old addage about the three most critical
> > > > > factors for real estate: location, location, and location.
> > > > > Better to own an outhouse in Beverly Hills than live in a
> > > > > huge pristin mansion in the ghettoes of Elizabeth NJ.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you allow yourself to be a replaceable, faceless worker who
>makes a
> > > > > > commodity, then you are the first to suffer when things slow down.
> > > > >
> > > > > This was the problem with one of my recent business partners.
> > > > > He's a great guy and very talented, but a throwback from the
> > > > > days of filthy hippies, love, and flowers.  His aspirations
> > > > > are "modest".  Well, the world is treating him as a pauper
> > > > > as result, but one cannot make another person want to be
> > > > > otherwise.  After six months he's just come to accept my
> > > > > assertion that he ought not lower his hourly rates, which
> > > > > plummeted from $85/hr to as low as $15.  You are worth what
> > > > > people think you are worth, and they think you are worth what
> > > > > you project that worth to be.  I think this applies to smiths
> > > > > as well.  Granted you must also have the skills and the sense
> > > > > of artistic style that appeals to people, but that is usually
> > > > > not enough without projecting the proper image.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you spend the time, effort and money to be as good as you can
>be,
> > >and
> > > > to
> > > > > > be an artist at what you do (not an artist- but an artist at what
>you
> > > > do.
> > > > > > You can be an artist, too, but the competition is even stiffer in
>that
> > > > > > field.) Then people want your work because YOU made it, and since
> > >there
> > > > is
> > > > > > only one of you, you have a pretty good chance of weathering the
> > >storm.
> > > > > > Of course, this is a lifelong journey.
> > > > >
> > > > > We had a long discussion on this last year on artmetal.
> > > > > Being and artiste is all well and wonderful, but it will
> > > > > not buy you a loaf of bread if you don't have a marketing
> > > > > plan or someone associated to you that has one.  Art,
> > > > > contrary to much protest, is not essential to life and when
> > > > > things get rough, art gets the axe before almost anything
> > > > > else.  Those whose art is perceived as being superior in
> > > > > value will be bought when that of all the others is left
> > > > > on the shelves to rot.  It behooves any serious smith to
> > > > > learn the art of marketing or partner with a marketeer to
> > > > > do the dirty work for you.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I mean, face it, the number of help wanted ads in the classifieds
>for
> > > > > > blacksmiths is pretty small. If you want to make a living as a
> > > > blacksmith,
> > > > > > you have to pretty much write your own job description, then
>figure
> > >out
> > > > a
> > > > > > way to hire yourself. Nobody said it was gonna be easy, but
>consider
> > >the
> > > > > > alternatives.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well said.
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