[TheForge] Cylinder Size

Tue Jul 15 08:57:00 2003

Hey Randy,
I'm pretty familiar with how single and double pilot valves work, but your
comment "would control where the valve was tripped with the treadle, just an
idea for
more control of the hammer", sound intriguing but leaves me confused as to
how it would work.
Sort of like telling me how to remove a car engine: 1. lift hood 2. Remove
engine.
Can you elaborate.
Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Mundt" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size

> Hi Chuck;
> If the lower pilot valve( the one that tells the hammer to go up) is
tripped
> near the top of the stroke or if you're using a valve setup w/ one pilot
> valve and spring return, a short burst of air sends the hammer down then
the
> bottom side of the cylinder starts filling to raise the hammer, so the
> hammer beats fast and light.  If the lower pilot valve is triped at the
> bottom of the stroke air pres. drives the hammer clear to the bottom  then
> the air reverses and raises the hammer , it beats slow and hard. I thought
I
> would control where the valve was tripped with the treadle, just an idea
for
> more control of the hammer.
> Randy Mundt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
>
>
> > Hey Randy,
> > I'm confused. Could you elaborate and more clearly state your idea so I
> can
> > understand it?
> > Chuck
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "R.C.Mundt" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 11:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> >
> >
> > > Just a thought I had if I ever got around to building an air hammer. I
> > > thought I would control the position of the lower pilot valve w/ the
> > > treadle, after the throttle valve was wide open further depressing the
> > > treadle would move the pilot valve downward.
> > > Randy Mundt
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 4:20 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Shannell,
> > > > I'm slowly building a 200 lb air hammer.
> > > > I don't like the cantilevered hammer slide on the kinyon hammer, so
I
> > > > designed the head to reciprocate inside a vertical square tube
shell.
> > The
> > > > rectangular head has 2 guide grooves milled on opposite sides and
they
> > > slide
> > > > on adjustable steel rails attached to the corresponding inner faces
of
> > the
> > > > tube. The top adjusting bolts of the guide rails will have a small
> hole
> > > > drilled thru the long axis of the bolt to provide lubrication to the
> > > sliding
> > > > surfaces of the hammer head. Since there is no side loading on the
> head
> > > wear
> > > > will be minimal.
> > > > The only problem I fore see with this design, is where to mount the
> > > > adjustable bottom pilot valve, hence the desirability of using a
> > pneumatic
> > > > stroke completion sensor.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Shannell Sugrue" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:13 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I use the dual pilot setup and its great, hits hard, fast and is
> > easily
> > > > > adjustable on the fly. I think any type of "stroke completion
> sensor"
> > > > might
> > > > > be overkill, I often slide my roller valves when working or when
> > putting
> > > a
> > > > > piece under the hammer.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: 12 July, 2003 9:13 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > One of the problems I've noticed is the relatively soft hit if
the
> > > > Kinyon
> > > > > > style hammers.
> > > > > >  I suspect the automatic reversing switch in the single pilot
> > control
> > > is
> > > > > > valve is the culprit, since the piston switches direction before
> the
> > > > > hammer
> > > > > > hits the billet. This also reduces dwell time of the hammer on
the
> > > > billet.
> > > > > > A double pilot control valve will eliminate this problem but the
> > > bottom
> > > > > > pilot valve must be adjusted for the billet thickness.
> > > > > > Is there any brave soul out there who has played around with
> stroke
> > > > > > completion sensors to maximize hammer dwell time and
automatically
> > > > adjust
> > > > > > for stock thickness?
> > > > > > Chuck
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:13 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you go with a larger bore on the cylinder you would need to
> > also
> > > > have
> > > > > > the ports on the cylinder and and the valve be as large as
> > > possible.The
> > > > > > trick is the amount of air flow you can get through the system
as
> > fast
> > > > as
> > > > > > you can get.You can have a large bore cylinder with big ports
but
> if
> > > the
> > > > > > valve ports are small and have a low cv rating then it will not
> > cycle
> > > > that
> > > > > > fast.I have a 2" bore cylinder on my 25lbr with 3/8" ports on
both
> > the
> > > > > > valve(which also has a high cv rate)and cylinder.it will do 240
> > beats
> > > > > > /minute before that I had the same style valve with 1/4" ports
and
> a
> > > > lower
> > > > > > cv and could only get 180 beats/minute
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > HotAnvil Forge
> > > > > > > http://members.tripod.com/hotanvil_forge
> > > > > > >
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