[TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.

Sun Jan 12 11:29:01 2003

Ene bichizh ogsen baina shuu...

> Pete
>
> Thanks for the suggestions, both much safer than working with straight
> copper.  I have never worked with Phosophor bronze before, how does it
> forge, and is it readily available?
>
> Harry

My roommate is familiar with these materials- he's a plumber on a nuclear
sub. I'm going to let him take over the computer, and give you his input.

Phlip

####################################################

Hi, I'm Rob.

There are three qiick options that I can give you. All are viable but
involve different degrees of labor and different techniques of metal work.

1. Use real copper. Best to cast links as a seamless unit and separate them
into a chain. Could use rod and bend, but run the risk of brittle fracture.
and end up with a seam line that is a weak point even with tig welding.
Copper has a low tensile strength and to achieve a safe load of 150% of
working load, you will need to go with 7/16" or 1/2" diameter.

2. Use phosphor bronze. The material looks like copper, especialy when aged.
It has two advantages. Firsrt, it is available in rod stock and can be
formed into links by hot working the metal. You can "T" joint the links, but
I still recommend tig welding. Seond advantage is tensile strength. Phosphor
bronze is significantly stronger than copper. You can safely get away with
5/16" or 3/8" diameter stock. We used to use this stuff for anchor chain.

3. Gun Metal. No, I am not talking about steel. Naval gun metal is a copper
nickel alloy that has a lot of desirable properties as far as tensile
strength, workability and looks. It is extremely close to copper in color
and gets a great patina with age. It is available in rod stock and may be
formed in a manner similar to phospher bronze. Down sides- a. expensive- not
much call for it these days, so it costs. b. can you say respirator? I
thought you could. A portion of the nickel fractions out during hot working,
and you need an organic filter resperator to prevent metal poisoning.

 As far as plating or painting a steel chain goes, well there are a couple
problems. First, with plating, the metal must be abslolutly clean (pickled)
prior to plating for proper adhesion. The plating process its self is highly
toxic, and in an environment with moderately high temperatures and humidity
(read kitchen) dissimilar metal corrosion will be accelerated. Give plating
a two year life span, at the most.

As for paint, anything that has a high enough metal content to look right
will also have problems with the steel, unless the steel has been
passivated. You also have to take into account the hardness of the paint.
The higher the solids content, the more brittle the paint. Not a problem in
a static application, but where you have load bearing and potential
movement, the problem of chipping and peeling exists.

Hopefully this will be helpful. Give Phlip feedback on results.

 If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
cat.

Never a horse that cain't be rode,
And never a rider who cain't be throwed....

----- Original Message -----
From: "H and P Foster" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Peter Fels and
> Phoebe Palmer
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:09 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.
>
>
> At 03:10 PM 1/12/03, you wrote:
>
>
> I'd suggest a silicon or phosphor bronze..both are copper like in color
and
> significantly stronger...especially the phosphor bronze.
> How bout a small decorative band to hold the S ends in place?//////Pete
>
>
>
> >Go steel and paint it, there are some amazing copper paints available
which
> >even naturally patinate, indistinguishable from copper to me, I guess
> forged
> >copper looks well "forged" though so that might be harder to replicate,
> tell
> >him its cheaper and stronger and you should convince him.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "H and P Foster" <[email protected]>
> >To: "the forge" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: 11 January, 2003 6:48 PM
> >Subject: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > A potential client is interested in me making some of my decorative
> chain
> > > http://pages.infinit.net/rustydog/chain1.htm to hang his wifes new pot
> >rack.
> > > So far so good.
> > >
> > > He then says that the pot rack and cast iron pots will weigh 1000
> pounds.
> > > I write back asking if he put one too many zeros on his figure.
> > > Nope......1000 pounds it is.  He also wants the chain in copper.
> > >
> > > I suggested I make a few links out of 3/8" copper round stock and he
can
> > > have it tested for the load and that the responsibility will be his
> alone.
> > > The rack will hang from 4 points.
> > >
> > > Do you think the copper of this dimension will be strong enough, or
> should
> >I
> > > suggest copper plated iron links instead?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help or ideas.
> > >
> > >
> > > Harry Foster
> > > Rusty Dog Forge
> > > http://pages.infinit.net/rustydog/home.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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