[TheForge] 1045 uses

Thu Feb 20 16:23:13 2003

I beg to differ.

The blacksmith "back then" was first and foremost a business man.  And
working from his scrap pile was the economically smart thing to do.  With
today's labor and steel costs, that may not be so economically advantageous.
So today's blacksmith, who has to earn a living, is going to do a time-cost
analysis, even if subconsciously, when it comes to scrounging vs buying new.
I am sure that is what fabricators and spring shops do, and that is why
their dumpsters are such rich hunting grounds for the hobby blacksmith; its
more cost effective to throw away the drops then to take the time to go
through hundreds of pounds of steel looking for the "right" piece for the
next project.  Or it is economically smart to organize your drops so that
you can get to that  "right" piece quickly.

Another factor:  Today's blacksmith can call today and have steel delivered
tomorrow, or can jump in the truck and drive to a steel yard or
(...shudder...) Lowmes Depot and get steel immediately.  Back then I suspect
that getting steel for most blacksmiths may have taken weeks if not months.

I doubt that there were many  hobby-blacksmiths "back then".   A hobbyist
can have the luxury of not factoring in his time.

So looking at the factors listed above, I really don't think we can compare
today's hobby blacksmith (or even part time/weekend blacksmith with a
working smith from "back then".  Totally different economic situations. And
that's what it all comes down to whether your a hobbyist or working smith,
now or then - the dollars and cents results of your decisions and actions.

Regards,
Albin Drzewianowski
Westminster, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reynolds" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] 1045 uses

>
>
> My two very puny cents on scrounging steel. George you are absolutely
right in one respect, it is potentially dangerous to make tools from steel
that has a questionable past. It can be the cause of maiming. So don't do
it!
>
> However, since most of what we do as smiths is not make our own tools,
then this argument of no scrounging breaks down when you get past making
tools.
>
> I've scrounged steel for decades; from barnyards, dumpsters, junk yards,
antique auctions, creeks .... basically anywhere it was to be found. Every
piece is a find, and eventually gets used. It may be years, but it gets
used.
>
> In our post modern culture we have adopted a "if it ain't new, it must be
trash mentality." Fact is, the smith of only 100 years ago would scoff at
George's anti-scrounging pronouncement, and they certainly took their craft
seriously. Iron or steel was not always easy to come by, and everything got
recycled. Have you ever looked closely at the contents of the Mastermyr
Find? If you have ever prodded through the remains of an old blacksmith shop
abandoned for more than 75 years, one will find piles of scrap steel and
iron -- waiting to be recycled.
>
> I make no apologies for recycling steel, I'm just sorry I can't get more
dimensional steel to use. Let's face it, much of what we do is not to be
scrutinized for its newness or tested for its Rockwell hardness, its tensil
strength or its temper.
>
> But to declare that no smith who values his time will go scrounging steel,
speaks more to the speaker's values as a product of the 20th Century, than
mine as a dumpster diver. I believe a smith of 1850 would be aghast at what
today's smiths toss out. Sure, we don't live in 1850, but the frugality of
those old craftsman is to be emulated, not scorned.
>
> But what do I know.....
>
> Reynolds Cushman
>
>
>
>  --- On Wed 02/19,  < [email protected] > wrote:
> From:  [mailto: [email protected]]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:27:28 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] 1045 uses
>
> I would agree for the professional smith, but for the hobbiest smith (
> by far the majority in headcount if not output)  scrounging has more to
> do with cherished mental defect than economics.   I was picking up odd
> scraps of steel from the side of the road  and diving dumpsters long
> before I started smithing.  Smithing gave me the skills to actually put
> the mounting pile of junk to use.   This defect is shared by more than
> the smith's -- why otherwise would people inspecting your wares
> gravitate more to  a knife formed from a railroad spike or old horseshoe
> than a comparably finished one out of a new higher carbon steel blank.
> This sort of recycling is a graphic and gratifying testament to the
> inheritly plastic and transmutable nature of metal, at odds with what
> the eyes and hands are telling you.  To many, a spike knife is no longer
> an inanimate object, but a living one, moving from one state to another.
>  Frozen in time, it gives you the sense that if you look away for a
> moment, it will complete the transition.   I believe this is the same
> reason customer's so often want the rough drive hook they watched you
> forge, rather than the nicer finished one on the table.  The one on the
> table is no different to them than the bubble wrapped inanimate objects
> they face everyday.  The one in your tongs is alive and mutable, they
> know because they saw it, and that image of it will keep in their minds
> eye.
>
> I started this out talkin about a smithing desease, sorry to wax
> philosophic.  Regarding the old spring steel, generally I anneal it a
> couple of  times before forging to normalize it.  I haven't had a
> problem yet, but I am not using it for power hammer dies where failure
> could more easily result in dangerous shrapnel.
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> George Dixon wrote:
>
> > New tool steel is normalized for sawing, delivered by UPS and is
> > cheaper than the time wasted prowling the trash for supplies, heating
> > the scrap up to normalize it, then sawing it to size....time has way
> > more value than can be saved using junk.
> > Lastly, used springs can have stress fractures from use and  abuse,
> > which may become apparent only after the
> > die made from them is hardened...when it can crack from previous
> > stresses.
> > If you are serious about your trade and understand the value of your
> > time, stick to new materials which are alloyed with their end use in
> > mind.
> >
> > George Dixon
> > metalsmith
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  [email protected]
> password:  anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  [email protected]
> password:  anvil
> ___________
>
>