[TheForge] A small project, questions from a new hammer.

[Jerry Frost]

Hi Dave:

Welcome aboard. Belated perhaps but my paycheck job makes checking E-mail on
my weekends a necessary pain. <sigh>

Comments, BS, etc. interspersed liberally. Hi Phlip. <grin>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Belfer-Shevett" <shevett@homeport.org>
To: <theforge@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] A small project, questions from a new hammer.


> On Tue, 2002-06-04 at 16:05, Phlip wrote:
> > Not sure how big it is- do you know, or does it have markings? but if it
> > rings nicely, you may want to use something to dampen the sound- it can
> > really get on your nerves after a while.
>
> The markings are obscured, it needs a good solid cleaning and a couple
> hours with a hand grinder.  I'll throw up some pictures soon as I can.
> The ringing comment was more along the lines of "This isn't dead iron".
> I'll probably dig up a decent sized stump to mount it on, most likely on
> a flat creeper so I can move it around (its on a creeper now, but
> sitting on a pair of I-beams.  Too low for me.  [I'm 6'6"])
>

I'd hold off with the grinder for a while at least, probably forever unless
the face, horn, etc. are really beaten up. I'd go for it with a cup brush
though. Adding to what Phlip said about noise, not only can it be annoying
it can permanently damage your hearing. There are several strategies for
deadening the ring. I morticed my anvil into a green spruce block, bedding
it in a little clay to make a contiguous contact surface. Others stick a
strong magnet to theirs in out of the way places. Still others wrap the
waist with a length of chain or chain it to the block. I've also heard sand
box anvil stands dampen the ring as well.

As for mounting height; it's often seen and held that knuckle height is
right but there is disagreement from currently working smiths. Evidently
knuckle height is right for striker work and not so good for a one man
operation. Wrist height is the recommendation of smiths who have trouble
with knuckle height. I have two working anvils a 125lb Soldorfors Sorcoress
#5 mounted at knuckle height and a 200 lb. Trenton mounted closer to wrist
height.

Personally both are comfortable for me to work so my recommendation is to
start with your anvil mounted at wrist height, work with it and trim the
block to suit yourself. Experiment with different heights by building
yourself stands; say 1/2-3/4" plywood laid flat on the floor. Stack and
unstack them till you find the height that's right for you. . . . THEN trim
the block. <grin>


> > Ummm, not a good idea for a first project. I'll tell you why in a
moment.
>
> Several folks have pointed out that reheating tempered and potentially
> annealed steel is going to cause it to lose its temper ("Bad smith!  No
> hammer biscuit!"), so I'm going to shelve the old blades and just pick
> up a new set.
>

A normal confusion in terms arises it's head.

Annealed or normalized means the metal has been returned to it's softest
possible state.

Tempering is a controlled softening or partial annealing, if you will, from
a hardened state.

Hardening is just that.

All together the processes are Heat Treating.

You can't hot work steel without affecting the previous heat treatment so
you have to know how to heat treat properly to make the repair right. Also
what steels can be heat treated, why and how. Metallurgy and heat treatment
are worlds and professions of their own. Don't let this worry you though,
there's plenty of metal out there workable and heat treatable by eyeball in
the forge.

> Using the metal for other projects will be good though... I'll start
> accumulating my scrap pile :)
>

"Resource Inventory!" Pleeeeease, if Deb finds out other people think it's
scrap I might have to clean it up!

> > [comments bout building a coal forge]
> > You'll also need some kind of blower.....
>
> This has puzzled me a bit.  From looking at Ken's forge, and other
> models I've seen, it looks like the blower blows -directly- up under the
> coal grate... is this correct?  It sounds like it would blow ash and
> crud everywhere.
>

You don't normally need the blower turned up so high it blows stuff out of
the forge. . . . Still, it happens.

> If I build my own coal arrangement, which I must admit appeals to the
> traditionalist in me - even though I'm sure I'll be working gas as well,
> I can put something together with brick and stone that'll have a passage
> for air under the grate, pointing 'up', next to the smoke chimney - I
> understand the concept of offsetting the chimney behind the heat point
> and using its 'draw' to pull smoke and cinder away from the smith...
> (seems eerie, but I've seen it work.  Neat :)
>

There are plenty of pictures, sketches, plans, etc. for forges, hoods, etc.
online. I'm sure somebody will post a URL or two so I can rebookmark them
too. <grin>

> > Actually, you could make worse choices than charcoal briquettes ;-) Bad
> > coal, for one ;-O
>

Briquettes work okay if you break them up first and are stingy with the air.
Don't weld worth spit though, too many imurities. Briquettes are made of
powdered charcoal (a byproduct of wood alcohol production) mixed with clay
and pressed into briquettes. The easy lighters are seasoned with kerosene
for flavor.

Making charcoal is a frequently discussed topic here and I hope to get
something built this summer. right now I'm thinking of a combination
incinerator reactor. Most of my forging is done in a propane forge of my own
design (and mistakes). About 40 miles from here is an old coal mine with
some of the finest metallurgical coal anywhere. If you can get to it . . . .
we couldn't last summer but we're hoping this summer. Local coal is top line
but hard to get, propane is fast, convenient, economical and easy but has
it's limitations. What I do have is 30 acres of hardwood forest I can
woodlot for a pretty unlimited source of charcoal for my limited needs.

> >
> > OK. You have several problems here. First and foremost, is that you
don't
> > really understand what you're doing, the nature of the materials and
tools
> > you're working with, and so forth. Basicly you know that if you heat
metal,
> > it gets soft and you can shape it with a hammer.
>
> That's... a pretty good analysis of where I am.
>

Ayup. A good place to start. <grin>

> > [much very good detail, summarized above, deleted]
> > Suggest you replace the mower blade, scrap the old one and maybe make a
> > knife or something out of it, build yourself or buy yourself a forge,
and
> > work from there.
>

Good advice. Of course, proficiency at constantly increasing our resource
inventory is a necessary and highly respected skill for any smith. Mower
blades are generally medium carbon steel, impact resistance is way more
important than holding an edge. Mower blades are generally pretty safe to
experiment with. They're generally pretty insensitive to marginal heat
treating practices. They're generally pretty good stock for beginners to
start out with.

Okay, have you noticed how many times I used the weasle words "generally and
pretty" to qualify the above statements? I have good reason to qualify every
thing I just said about mower blades being relatively safe. There's a world
of difference between working new stock and repairing damaged items. An
impact damaged mower blade is a vary stressed puppy with a good chance of
fractures and such.

I DO NOT recommend you try repairing the mower blade. I do however recommend
you use it for practice. If and when you want to get into working tool steel
I recommend spring steel for a start. You can pick up drops for little or
nothing at a spring shop, it's very forgiving of novice heat treating, is
VERY tough and hardens nicely.

> > Where are you? Maybe one of us is close enough to help you get started?
>
> Akshully, Marc Godbout is in Derry, and we're talking about doing a
> gas-forge assembly soon.  I'll need firebrick and plumbing, not to
> mention decent workspace in the garage (which I don't have at the
> moment. Gotta move some old projects.
>
> -d
>

Let Marc clue you as to what you'll need for a propane forge. You'll find
lots of good information about naturally aspirated propane forge
construction on Ron Reil's web site under the forge and foundry pages. The
URL is:  http://www.reil1.net/

Have fun, play safe.

Frosty
------------------------
If it ain't forged
it ain't real.
Wrought iron is.
The FrostWorks

Meadow Lakes, AK.