[TheForge] 15Ton Press

Sat Jan 5 20:19:00 2002

      This is a Sun control cartridge.  You may have luck cutting the bottom
off the cartridge, but mostly pilot controls of this sort also go along with
small porting to allow minimal flow to outriggers or crane turn tables, etc.
This is for safe operation of the unit they were designed for.  I can't tell
you that cutting the cartridge will solve all your problems.  Mine had to be
rebored for a new cylinder port and welded in..............that worked for
me, getting all the oil out is a trick if the end that takes this cartridge
is loaded with oil in all the pores of the metal.
        It may not be ice......it may be another cross porting not allowing
it to move unless done under pressure.  Like I said, it is sometimes easier
to buy what you need with hydraulics.
        When in doubt with hydraulics, over build it.  That is the best
advice I can give with your rolls.  Rolls work best with two rolls driven at
the same speed.

Ralph Sproul - Bear Hill Blacksmith
Webster, NH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Fasula" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] 15Ton Press


> Hi Ralph,
>
> Damn, I bet that pilot is set high because the machine runs 3500 psi.  How
> do they work?  The link http://www.geocities.com/edfasula/smithing.html is
> to picture of the side and the end of the pilot valve I pulled out.  I
> noted the way I *think* it works and how to defeat it.  Does that look
> right to you?  Something else I noticed, I can force the ram out pretty
> easy but sucks back in.  I have the caps off the inlet/outlet openings.
It
> seems a bit weird to me.  This happens if the pilot valve is in or not.  I
> wonder if it isn't iced up.  There was a bit of ice around the valve.  I'm
> running out to start heating up the shop up now.
>
> OK I'm back.
>
> On thinking more about the roller setup, if only one roller is driven
there
> would be a hefty side load on the idler.  If I don't drive both rollers
> I'll have to design the double angle side rails to take that side
> load.  They are in tension so they won't likely buckle but the stress
might
> get too high without beef up.  I'd really be interested to see how you
guys
> are thinking of setting it up.
>
> Ed
>
> At 08:06 AM 1/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >         Ed, the term compensated indicates the pressure is varied.  The
main
> >purpose of these pumps is to have an "idle" so the oil doesn't heat up
when
> >left running all day, and then kick in when needed to do the work.
> >         I'd stick with the two stage pump you mention - it will give you
> >fast there, and slow to work under the heavier pressure.  The pressure
> >relief valve in your valve body determines the break out pressure of the
> >system.
> >         It's not so much the pressure that determines the rolls being
> >driven, it's the size of the vanes in the rotor of the motor.  You buy a
> >motor with higher torque ratings, not one that works with higher
pressures.
> >         I also had a pilot pressure cylinder off a crane outrigger that
I
> >used for my ram.  I bored the pilot system out, and welded in a new port
> >fitting to over ride that system and make it a regular system.  If the
pilot
> >pressure is too high, your pump will always be on high pressure even to
move
> >the cylinder, which will defeat the entire purpose of having a two stage
> >pump, and then the press will be to slow to do anything.
> >         Welcome to the wonderful world of scrounging hydraulic parts and
> >finding it often is better to just buy what you need, as compared to the
> >hours of work it takes to make what you found work.  :-)
> >         I made a set of cut offs for choping off 2 1/2" stock hot.
Works
> >but rather rough,  I saw the parts - then press them hot.
> >
> >Ralph Sproul - Bear Hill Blacksmith
> >Webster, NH
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ed Fasula" <[email protected]>
> >To: "TheForge" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:29 PM
> >Subject: Re: [TheForge] 15Ton Press
> >
> >
> > > Hi Chuck & Ralph,
> > >
> > > I'm really interested in your ideas about using rollers.  I'm
designing my
> > > press and I'd like to keep this future design in mind.  I haven't
bought a
> > > pump yet - the compensated piston pump sounds interesting - do you
> > > basically set it at a given pressure?  Is it just one speed then?  I
was
> > > planning on a Northern Hydraulics 2 speed gear pump, which wouldn't
stop
> >at
> > > a pressure but my piston has a valve to lock it until forced to move -
> >it's
> > > off a construction fork lift.  So I could set it to a stock thickness.
> >Any
> > > idea on the power required to drive the roller?
> > >
> > > Chuck, I'm really interested in seeing the structure for a 70 ton
> > > press!  How wide is your span?  The book has a 10" opening.  I'd like
to
> >go
> > > at least 12".  Have you ever wished to have it wider?  What is your
die
> > > setup that you can change in 15 seconds?  I was thinking of using 3x3
> > > vertical bar and then plasma cutting blanks that I'd press around the
3x3
> > > bar (into a female die), that would form a box with one open end, then
> >have
> > > a hitch pin with a ball retainer to run horizontally through the 3x3
bar.
> > >
> > > Have you guys ever thought about making a hot shear with the press?
> > >
> > > Can you pass along some pictures?  Please use [email protected]
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > >
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