[TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

Sat Dec 7 21:51:02 2002

We used to seat valves using an abrasive kitchen cleaner like Comet.  We
used a regular valve seating tool - it was hand cranked and produced a
reciprocating motion on the shaft which had a suction cup on the end to
stick on the valve.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannell Sugrue <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

>That is really honeing, I dont think it could be used in this case, lapping
>is more about using the parts involved to make a perfect fit using a fine
>abrasiive compound and moving the parts over one another.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Smolen" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: 06 December, 2002 7:29 PM
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
>
>
>> Steve,
>> I am not an expert at lapping, but a brake cylinder lap can be used. You
>can
>> buy them for around 15.00 at auto parts store. They have three prongs
>which
>> have a small stone at the end. As the lap spins, the prongs spread
outward
>> to force the stones against the surface being honed..Chuck the lap in a
>> drill and get at it. I did this to smooth the surface of the bored hole
>thru
>> which the spools rotate.
>> I also cobbled a lap by drilling a hole in the long axis of a scrap round
>> that was near the size of the valve hole. I made some cuts lengthwise at
>the
>> bottom end of the round. I wrapped sand paper around the round and drove
a
>> tapered rod into the hole I drilled so it would cause a little expansion
>> after it was inserted in the hole. I turned a small diameter on the other
>> end of the round so it would fit in the drill chuck. I probably could
have
>> gotten by with this lap , but the brake cyl. lap was easy to use.
>> Bob
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
>>
>>
>> > No plans, just his booklet on how Nazel's work with a few pages on his
>> > prototype.
>> >
>> > It looks like spool valves might work; if not, I'm going to have to
>> > figure out lapping.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> > lama wrote:
>> > > Steve, I don't know about yardsticks, but I don't think that one
>> > > can compare Kinyons & Nazels. It's like apples & oranges.
>> > > I would love to have a Nazel,,,, and if I could find one in
>> > > working order for $1,000 I would grab it. I guess that the bottom
>> > > line here is that we are talking about folks building their own air
>> hammers.
>> > > The Nazel is not a homemade hammer, the Krause & Kinyon are.
>> > > Kinyon = (no machining necessary) (you need a compressor)
>> > > Krause = (advanced machining skills required) (you need a lathe etc.)
>> > > Now if Krause would offer the plans AND sell "the valve", I'll bet
>that
>> > > he would have a lot of business. I know that I would seriously
>consider
>> > > using that system on my big hammer, but I don't have any machining
>> > > skills and I don't have a lathe.  I still haven't found out if there
>are
>> > > published plans available. Where? how much?
>> > >
>> > > dave m
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
>> > > To: <[email protected]>
>> > > Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:46 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>It sounds like my Kinyon comments are being taken as critical of the
>> > >>design. That was not at all my intention. I realize the hammer can do
>> > >>lots of useful work, and certainly respect Kinyon's contribution.
>> > >>
>> > >>The way I think about the difference between the hammers (please add
>or
>> > >>subtract as you folks see it) is as follows:
>> > >>A Kinyon is like moving a ball bearing with a yardstick. The bearing
>> > >>moves just fine, but when you try to reverse it, it takes a bit to
>> > >>regain control.
>> > >>A Nazel is like moving a ball bearing with two yardsticks, one on
each
>> > >>side. You can put it right where you want it.
>> > >>
>> > >>The ball bearing is the hammer head, of course, yardsticks are air.
>> > >>
>> > >>Hey, please keep up this discussion; I'll be out of town until
>Thursday.
>> > >>
>> > >>Steve
>> > >>
>> > >>lama wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>>air through the spool valve to the top of the cylinder, forcing it
>> down.
>> > >>
>> > > A
>> > >
>> > >>>little
>> > >>>exhaust causes a little movement of the cylinder (ram, head, top
die)
>> > >>
>> > > and a
>> > >
>> > >>>light tap. A heavy foot on the exhaust valve (treadle) causes a
heavy
>> > >>
>> > > blow.
>> > >
>> > >>>This hammer hits a lot harder than my 50# Little Giant ever did.
The
>> > >>>downward
>> > >>>movement of the ram activates a pilot switch. The pilot switch tells
>> the
>> > >>>spool
>> > >>>valve to rout the air to the bottom side of the cylinder, thus
>forcing
>> > >>
>> > > the
>> > >
>> > >>>cylinder
>> > >>>upward and activating the pilot switch once again which tells the
>spool
>> > >>>valve to
>> > >>>rout the air to the top of the cylinder, thus forcing the downward
>> > >>
>> > > stroke
>> > >
>> > >>>and
>> > >>>the cycle keeps repeating. The Kinyon hammer does not have the
>ability
>> > >>
>> > > to
>> > >
>> > >>>clamp & hold a piece of work. Bob Bergman's "KA-75" can do that
quite
>> > >>
>> > > well
>> > >
>> > >>>as will the "Blue" but @ $4,000, they are out of my price range. The
>> > >>
>> > > Kinyon
>> > >
>> > >>>is
>> > >>>not a Nazel or a Chambersburg or any of the Chinese / Turkish Nazel
>> > >>>knock-offs.
>> > >>>They cost $8k - $30k and are way out of my price range. The Kinyon
>cost
>> > >>>about $1,000 or less depending on your local scrap yard. The bottom
>> line
>> > >>
>> > > is
>> > >
>> > >>>that
>> > >>>the Kinyon design works quite well and there are lots of them
around.
>I
>> > >>
>> > > can
>> > >
>> > >>>think
>> > >>>of 7 Kinyons in a 100 mile radius.
>> > >>>I am not down on the Krause hammer at all. In fact I think that it's
>> > >>>probably a
>> > >>>great idea. I would love to see plans because there is still time to
>> > >>
>> > > make my
>> > >
>> > >>>big
>> > >>>hammer in that manner.
>> > >>>dave m
>> > >>>
>> > >>>----- Original Message -----
>> > >>>From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
>> > >>>To: <[email protected]>
>> > >>>Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 6:15 PM
>> > >>>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>>Well, I'd like something larger than my current 25 pound LG. This
>gets
>> > >>>>into a 5-7.5HP compressor pretty quickly from what I hear.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>I don't mean to bad mouth the Kinyon design; from what I understand
>> (I'm
>> > >>>>hoping Dave M. will jump in and improve me), Kinyon's push on one
>side
>> > >>>>of the piston, then push on the other side. You can do a lot of
work
>> on
>> > >>>>this style hammer, but it doesn't seem like you have a lot of
>control
>> of
>> > >>>>the ram position.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>Steve
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>_______________________________________________
>> > >>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > >>theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > >>http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > >>Login:  [email protected]
>> > >>password:  anvil
>> > >>___________
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > > Login:  [email protected]
>> > > password:  anvil
>> > > ___________
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > Login:  [email protected]
>> > password:  anvil
>> > ___________
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>> Login:  [email protected]
>> password:  anvil
>> ___________
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>theforge mail list group photo site is
>http://www.photoaccess.com
>Login:  [email protected]
>password:  anvil
>___________
>
>