[TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

Sat Dec 7 00:14:00 2002

That is really honeing, I dont think it could be used in this case, lapping
is more about using the parts involved to make a perfect fit using a fine
abrasiive compound and moving the parts over one another.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Smolen" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: 06 December, 2002 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

> Steve,
> I am not an expert at lapping, but a brake cylinder lap can be used. You
can
> buy them for around 15.00 at auto parts store. They have three prongs
which
> have a small stone at the end. As the lap spins, the prongs spread outward
> to force the stones against the surface being honed..Chuck the lap in a
> drill and get at it. I did this to smooth the surface of the bored hole
thru
> which the spools rotate.
> I also cobbled a lap by drilling a hole in the long axis of a scrap round
> that was near the size of the valve hole. I made some cuts lengthwise at
the
> bottom end of the round. I wrapped sand paper around the round and drove a
> tapered rod into the hole I drilled so it would cause a little expansion
> after it was inserted in the hole. I turned a small diameter on the other
> end of the round so it would fit in the drill chuck. I probably could have
> gotten by with this lap , but the brake cyl. lap was easy to use.
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
>
>
> > No plans, just his booklet on how Nazel's work with a few pages on his
> > prototype.
> >
> > It looks like spool valves might work; if not, I'm going to have to
> > figure out lapping.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > lama wrote:
> > > Steve, I don't know about yardsticks, but I don't think that one
> > > can compare Kinyons & Nazels. It's like apples & oranges.
> > > I would love to have a Nazel,,,, and if I could find one in
> > > working order for $1,000 I would grab it. I guess that the bottom
> > > line here is that we are talking about folks building their own air
> hammers.
> > > The Nazel is not a homemade hammer, the Krause & Kinyon are.
> > > Kinyon = (no machining necessary) (you need a compressor)
> > > Krause = (advanced machining skills required) (you need a lathe etc.)
> > > Now if Krause would offer the plans AND sell "the valve", I'll bet
that
> > > he would have a lot of business. I know that I would seriously
consider
> > > using that system on my big hammer, but I don't have any machining
> > > skills and I don't have a lathe.  I still haven't found out if there
are
> > > published plans available. Where? how much?
> > >
> > > dave m
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>It sounds like my Kinyon comments are being taken as critical of the
> > >>design. That was not at all my intention. I realize the hammer can do
> > >>lots of useful work, and certainly respect Kinyon's contribution.
> > >>
> > >>The way I think about the difference between the hammers (please add
or
> > >>subtract as you folks see it) is as follows:
> > >>A Kinyon is like moving a ball bearing with a yardstick. The bearing
> > >>moves just fine, but when you try to reverse it, it takes a bit to
> > >>regain control.
> > >>A Nazel is like moving a ball bearing with two yardsticks, one on each
> > >>side. You can put it right where you want it.
> > >>
> > >>The ball bearing is the hammer head, of course, yardsticks are air.
> > >>
> > >>Hey, please keep up this discussion; I'll be out of town until
Thursday.
> > >>
> > >>Steve
> > >>
> > >>lama wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>air through the spool valve to the top of the cylinder, forcing it
> down.
> > >>
> > > A
> > >
> > >>>little
> > >>>exhaust causes a little movement of the cylinder (ram, head, top die)
> > >>
> > > and a
> > >
> > >>>light tap. A heavy foot on the exhaust valve (treadle) causes a heavy
> > >>
> > > blow.
> > >
> > >>>This hammer hits a lot harder than my 50# Little Giant ever did.  The
> > >>>downward
> > >>>movement of the ram activates a pilot switch. The pilot switch tells
> the
> > >>>spool
> > >>>valve to rout the air to the bottom side of the cylinder, thus
forcing
> > >>
> > > the
> > >
> > >>>cylinder
> > >>>upward and activating the pilot switch once again which tells the
spool
> > >>>valve to
> > >>>rout the air to the top of the cylinder, thus forcing the downward
> > >>
> > > stroke
> > >
> > >>>and
> > >>>the cycle keeps repeating. The Kinyon hammer does not have the
ability
> > >>
> > > to
> > >
> > >>>clamp & hold a piece of work. Bob Bergman's "KA-75" can do that quite
> > >>
> > > well
> > >
> > >>>as will the "Blue" but @ $4,000, they are out of my price range. The
> > >>
> > > Kinyon
> > >
> > >>>is
> > >>>not a Nazel or a Chambersburg or any of the Chinese / Turkish Nazel
> > >>>knock-offs.
> > >>>They cost $8k - $30k and are way out of my price range. The Kinyon
cost
> > >>>about $1,000 or less depending on your local scrap yard. The bottom
> line
> > >>
> > > is
> > >
> > >>>that
> > >>>the Kinyon design works quite well and there are lots of them around.
I
> > >>
> > > can
> > >
> > >>>think
> > >>>of 7 Kinyons in a 100 mile radius.
> > >>>I am not down on the Krause hammer at all. In fact I think that it's
> > >>>probably a
> > >>>great idea. I would love to see plans because there is still time to
> > >>
> > > make my
> > >
> > >>>big
> > >>>hammer in that manner.
> > >>>dave m
> > >>>
> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > >>>To: <[email protected]>
> > >>>Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 6:15 PM
> > >>>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Well, I'd like something larger than my current 25 pound LG. This
gets
> > >>>>into a 5-7.5HP compressor pretty quickly from what I hear.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I don't mean to bad mouth the Kinyon design; from what I understand
> (I'm
> > >>>>hoping Dave M. will jump in and improve me), Kinyon's push on one
side
> > >>>>of the piston, then push on the other side. You can do a lot of work
> on
> > >>>>this style hammer, but it doesn't seem like you have a lot of
control
> of
> > >>>>the ram position.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > >>theforge mail list group photo site is
> > >>http://www.photoaccess.com
> > >>Login:  [email protected]
> > >>password:  anvil
> > >>___________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > > Login:  [email protected]
> > > password:  anvil
> > > ___________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login:  [email protected]
> > password:  anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  [email protected]
> password:  anvil
> ___________
>
>
>