[TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
Nancy & Jim Jordan
[email protected]
Sat Aug 31 22:16:00 2002
I would have thought that Cincinnati would have been considered a primary
national resource.
Without the proper tools and infrastructure we would be pretty likely to
lose in a protracted WW2 type of conflict.
Yeah I know, it can't happen again (or could it?)
I believe the main reason we won WW1 and WW2 is we could reach out and
destroy Germany's industrial base without them being able to touch ours.
Remember all the attacks on ball bearing factories in the movies?
With out bearings or oil or the ability to make tools they wore down the
German infrastructure.
Are we letting our infrastructure be destroyed from within?
Sad times.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Miller" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> Ralph,
> It's worse than that. Not only are we losing our manufacturing base, we
> are also killing off our intellectual development. For example, GE
> Aircraft Engines is shipping all their engineering development effort to
> engineering companies in India, Pakistan, etc. GEAE has also transferred
> their accounts receivable function to India, and their purchasing to
> Mexico. Proctor and Gamble has shipped their Global Business Services to
> Costa Rica (Human Resources, accounting, etc.) and they are actually
> selling that part of the business to an outside firm.
>
> If we ever really get into a real war effort we're screwed!!
>
> Ray Miller
> Cincinnati
>
> Ralph Sproul wrote:
>
> > Ray, Thanks for the sad history lesson......... it's depressing
to
> >hear about all our declining manufacturing base. If we ever have to
gear
> >up for something.....we'll have to get the gears from China or Tiawan.
:-(
> >
> >Ralph
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ray Miller" <[email protected]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:15 PM
> >Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> >
> >
> >>Jim,
> >>You are right. They built the best machine tools, they built the best
> >>robots, they built the best grinders, lathes, etc. etc.
> >>But they are GONE!!!
> >>
> >>I worked there for a short time when I was optimistic that a turn around
> >>might be possible. The last member of the Geier family to run the
> >>company was still there. The week before he retired he joined me and my
> >>customer (Boeing Construction Services to name drop) at lunch. at one
> >>point during lunch I asked him if he was looking forward to retirement.
> >>He responded that he had been looking forward to retirement since his
> >>first day there. He was the great grandson of the founder of Cincinnati
> >>Screw and Tap, which later became Cincinnati Milling Machine which later
> >>became Cincinnati Milacron.
> >>
> >>Over the last decade Cincinnati Milcaron sold off their robot division,
> >>closed the lathe division, sold the CNC products division, sold Valenite
> >>division, sold the semiconductor division, sold ILM (their laser machine
> >>business), closed their machining center plant in Fountain Inn, SC, and
> >>the last major disection was selling off the original main plant in
> >>Cincinnati to Unova. Unova has since sold off most of the land and
> >>buildings which have been demolished for of course........a Sam's Club,
> >>a Target, a Dodge/Kia dealership and lots of parking!!!!
> >>
> >>A sin for sure!!!
> >>
> >>Ray
> >>Cincinnati
> >>
> >>Nancy & Jim Jordan wrote:
> >>
> >>>Cincinnati Milacron is gone!???
> >>>Oh, the shame of today's world.
> >>>I never thought it could happen.
> >>>I guess making the best product isn't enough anymore.
> >>>Cin-mil made great tools, grinding wheel etc.
> >>>It is a real loss.
> >>>Jim Jordan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: <[email protected]>
> >>>To: <[email protected]>
> >>>Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:34 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Bill,
> >>>>That is a regular dilemma in many areas of life. How many of us check
> >>>>
> >the
> >
> >>>tags of the clothes we wear and do not purchase things made in China,
> >>>Pakistan, India, etc. with child or slave labor.
> >>>
> >>>>Many times on this list people have discussed Harbor Freight Tools and
> >>>>
> >>>their source. Yet they are a thriving resource to many on this list.
> >>>
> >>>>In my mind what American Bending represents is the path any viable
> >>>>
> >company
> >
> >>>should take. Yes Hossfeld developed the tools and designs. But they
have
> >>>settled into a comfort zome of doing what they have always done taking
> >>>
> >no
> >
> >>>advantage of improvements in materials or process.
> >>>
> >>>>Yes, I think applying CNC is using new technology. If the only result
is
> >>>>
> >a
> >
> >>>cheaper product with the same quality, in the eyes of the market,
that's
> >>>
> >a
> >
> >>>new product.
> >>>
> >>>>Many other US business icons have disappeared as a result of stagnant
> >>>>
> >>>business cultures, practices or ideas.
> >>>
> >>>>How many of you remember the glory days of Cincinnati's machine tool
> >>>>
> >>>industry?
> >>>
> >>>>Cincinnati Milling Machine, later called Cincinnati Milacron - GONE
> >>>>Cincinnati Gilbert - almost gone
> >>>>Giddings and Lewis - Gone
> >>>>LaBlond lathes - Gone
> >>>>and the list goes on, for Cincinnati and other cities with their own
> >>>>
> >>>specific industries.
> >>>
> >>>>A business or company needs to adopt new ideas keep learning how to do
> >>>>
> >the
> >
> >>>job better or else get passed by.
> >>>
> >>>>As blacksmiths we are all committed to learned new skills, adopting
new
> >>>>
> >>>processes, new tools and always interested in improving our skills and
> >>>
> >the
> >
> >>>fruits of out labor. Do any of us think that we are good enough to stop
> >>>learning???
> >>>
> >>>>Ray Miller
> >>>>Cincinnati
> >>>>
> >>>>>From: Woolley <[email protected]>
> >>>>>Date: 2002/08/29 Thu PM 10:54:06 EDT
> >>>>>To: Forge list <[email protected]>
> >>>>>Subject: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Greetings,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I finally found a used #2 Hossfeld right in my backyard, quite by
> >>>>>accident that I got for a good price. It came with one set of
> >>>>>dies(1.25" tube steel) so I need to buy some for flats. I have
> >>>>>
> >American
> >
> >>>>>Benders literature with price list as well as Hossfeld literature
with
> >>>>>
> >a
> >
> >>>>>distributor with stock also in my backyard. Reviewing and comparing
> >>>>>prices between the two companies has brought me to consider what I
> >>>>>consider an ethical question that I'll put to the list to see how
> >>>>>
> >others
> >
> >>>>>feel just out of curiosity, not to judge other peoples ethics.
> >>>>>
> >Hossfeld
> >
> >>>>>developes, patents, and markets a very useful, economical bending
tool
> >>>>>with an adequate, varied set of dies for years with much success.
> >>>>>
> >Patent
> >
> >>>>>runs out, ex employee copies the whole deal, markets as improved
> >>>>>
> >because
> >
> >>>>>of CNC technology, and cheaper to buy to end user. Now in all
fairness
> >>>>>to the new guys, I have not seen their dies. But looking at and
having
> >>>>>used a Hossfeld, we are not really talking a sophisticated (as far
as
> >>>>>
> >>>>>from a manufacturing standpoint) piece of equipment here. Does
having
> >>>>
> >a
> >
> >>>>>CNC guided machine really benefit the end user? The holes and pins
and
> >>>>>castings etc. on the original seem perfectly fine. Is it the price?
> >>>>>
> >My
> >
> >>>>>search hasn't found the new guys to be significantly better. Let me
> >>>>>stress, I have absolutely no malice nor ill feeling toward the
> >>>>>principals in this new venture, just trying to decide whether or not
to
> >>>>>support a company who probably hasn't built a better mouse trap. In
> >>>>>
> >any
> >
> >>>>>case, I'm looking for die sets. Used is always an option. Anybody?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>Bill Woolley
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
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