[TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies

Sat Aug 31 07:12:01 2002

        Ray,  Thanks for the sad history lesson......... it's depressing to
hear about all our declining manufacturing base.   If we ever have to gear
up for something.....we'll have to get the gears from China or Tiawan.   :-(

Ralph


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Miller" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies


> Jim,
> You are right. They built the best machine tools, they built the best
> robots, they built the best grinders, lathes, etc. etc.
> But they are GONE!!!
>
> I worked there for a short time when I was optimistic that a turn around
> might be possible. The last member of the Geier family to run the
> company was still there. The week before he retired he joined me and my
> customer (Boeing Construction Services to name drop) at lunch. at one
> point during lunch I asked him if he was looking forward to retirement.
> He responded that he had been looking forward to retirement since his
> first day there. He was the great grandson of the founder of Cincinnati
> Screw and Tap, which later became Cincinnati Milling Machine which later
> became Cincinnati Milacron.
>
> Over the last decade Cincinnati Milcaron sold off their robot division,
> closed the lathe division, sold the CNC products division, sold Valenite
> division, sold the semiconductor division, sold ILM (their laser machine
> business), closed their machining center plant in Fountain Inn, SC, and
> the last major disection was selling off the original main plant in
> Cincinnati to Unova. Unova has since sold off most of the land and
> buildings which have been demolished for of course........a Sam's Club,
> a Target, a Dodge/Kia dealership and lots of parking!!!!
>
> A sin for sure!!!
>
> Ray
> Cincinnati
>
> Nancy & Jim Jordan wrote:
>
> >Cincinnati Milacron is gone!???
> >Oh, the shame of today's world.
> >I never thought it could happen.
> >I guess making the best product isn't enough anymore.
> >Cin-mil made great tools, grinding wheel etc.
> >It is a real loss.
> >Jim Jordan
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[email protected]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> >
> >
> >>Bill,
> >>That is a regular dilemma in many areas of life. How many of us check
the
> >>
> >tags of the clothes we wear and do not purchase things made in China,
> >Pakistan, India, etc. with child or slave labor.
> >
> >>Many times on this list people have discussed Harbor Freight Tools and
> >>
> >their source. Yet they are a thriving resource to many on this list.
> >
> >>In my mind what American Bending represents is the path any viable
company
> >>
> >should take. Yes Hossfeld developed the tools and designs. But they have
> >settled into a comfort zome of doing what they  have always done taking
no
> >advantage of improvements in materials or process.
> >
> >>Yes, I think applying CNC is using new technology. If the only result is
a
> >>
> >cheaper product with the same quality, in the eyes of the market, that's
a
> >new product.
> >
> >>Many other US business icons have disappeared as a result of stagnant
> >>
> >business cultures, practices or ideas.
> >
> >>How many of you remember the glory days of Cincinnati's machine tool
> >>
> >industry?
> >
> >>Cincinnati Milling Machine, later called Cincinnati Milacron - GONE
> >>Cincinnati Gilbert - almost gone
> >>Giddings and Lewis - Gone
> >>LaBlond lathes - Gone
> >>and the list goes on, for Cincinnati and other cities with their own
> >>
> >specific industries.
> >
> >>A business or company needs to adopt new ideas keep learning how to do
the
> >>
> >job better or else get passed by.
> >
> >>As blacksmiths we are all committed to learned new skills, adopting new
> >>
> >processes, new tools and always interested in improving our skills and
the
> >fruits of out labor. Do any of us think that we are good enough to stop
> >learning???
> >
> >>Ray Miller
> >>Cincinnati
> >>
> >>>From: Woolley <[email protected]>
> >>>Date: 2002/08/29 Thu PM 10:54:06 EDT
> >>>To: Forge list <[email protected]>
> >>>Subject: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> >>>
> >>>Greetings,
> >>>
> >>>I finally found a used #2 Hossfeld right in my backyard, quite by
> >>>accident that I got for a good price.  It came with one set of
> >>>dies(1.25" tube steel) so I need to buy some for flats.  I have
American
> >>>Benders literature with price list as well as Hossfeld literature with
a
> >>>distributor with stock also in my backyard.  Reviewing and comparing
> >>>prices between the two companies has brought me to consider what I
> >>>consider an ethical question that I'll put to the list to see how
others
> >>>feel just out of curiosity, not to judge other peoples ethics.
Hossfeld
> >>>developes, patents, and markets a very useful, economical bending tool
> >>>with an adequate, varied set of dies for years with much success.
Patent
> >>>runs out, ex employee copies the whole deal, markets as improved
because
> >>>of CNC technology, and cheaper to buy to end user.  Now in all fairness
> >>>to the new guys, I have not seen their dies.  But looking at and having
> >>>used a  Hossfeld, we are not really talking a sophisticated (as far as
> >>>from a manufacturing standpoint) piece of equipment here.  Does having
a
> >>>CNC guided machine really benefit the end user?  The holes and pins and
> >>>castings etc. on the original seem perfectly fine.  Is it the price?
My
> >>>search hasn't found the new guys to be significantly better.  Let me
> >>>stress,  I have absolutely no malice nor ill feeling toward the
> >>>principals in this new venture, just trying to decide whether or not to
> >>>support a company who probably hasn't built a better mouse trap.  In
any
> >>>case, I'm looking for die sets.  Used is always an option. Anybody?
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>Bill Woolley
> >>>_______________________________________________
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