[TheForge] LG dies, was cast iron - Little Giant pulley

Sun Aug 11 20:59:00 2002

        Cameron, I find no reason at all not to use 4140 for hammer dies.
        You may find many a damaged cutter if you try to mill a forged piece
of 4140.  It is a chrome alloy and will get hard in the air to a certain
degree.   Welding to 4140 will yield hard spots that will dull inserts, and
take the rake of your band saw blades.  I think it is wishful thinking to
figure your going to make an accurate set of dovetails on a press.
    If you have a milling machine, buy the stock the right size, and mill it
the first time.....your short cut will cost you in the long run.
        My two cents.

Ralph Sproul - Bear Hill Blacksmith
Webster, NH


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Stoker" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] LG dies, was cast iron - Little Giant pulley


> Thanks for the tip about Sid's new system. I had been looking at the die
> setups on some of the homebuilt air hammers out there and feeling a bit
> green.
>
> I like the idea of a base in the hammer dovetails and then having die
> faces which bolt on with cap screws and dowel pins for precise locating.
>
> I did a bit of research last night and checked out carpenterdirect.com
> (thaks to Adam Whiteson). They have very good prices on tool steels from
> what I could see. They list the price for a 10 to 12' length of 2.5" diam.
>   4140 round at about $140. This is certainly within my price range. I
> imagine I could square up the round bar (to a 2" x 2.5" cross-section) in
> my forging press, and then forge the dovetail taper with a carefully
> machined set of double taper dies for the press. Perhaps a cleanup pass or
> two on the mill, but the bulk of the metal would be in the right place
> from the forging.  If I can get this process figured out reasonably
> smoothly, I could spend a weekend or two making up a bunch of die blanks,
> then just forge/machine/grind the faces to suit whenever I need a new die
> setup.
> I know 4340 steel is a bit better match for hammer die tooling, but isn't
> is quite similar to 4140? Anyone know of a reason not to use 4140 for a
> #50 little giant die set?
>
> Thanks for the advice
>
> On Saturday, August 10, 2002, at 09:37 PM, Rick & Kims Email wrote:
>
> > Cameron,
> > Before you go making dies, you  should check out the new die system
> > that Sid is selling for LGs.  They consist of die bases that  fit into
> > the dovetailed top and bottom ways.  Then the working dies bolt on to
> > the bases.  So, it is quicker and less costly to switch from drawing
> > to flat dies for example.  If you are going to make dies, you might
> > want to purchase the bases cut for the divetails from Sid and make the
> > business ends your self.
> >
> > Rick Korinek
> > Emerald City Forge
> > Framingham, MA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cameron Stoker <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 1:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] cast iron - Little Giant pulley
> >
> >
> > I just got done upgrading the belt system used on my #50 LG hammer. I
> > had
> > machined a 2.5" flat belt pulley, and used the flat canvas belt for
> > quite
> > a while, but I could never get it to stay on when the belt got oily
> > (inevitable on  a lg).  I got so sick of it that I changed to a
> > synchronous drive belt system (timing belt and pulley). You can order
> > the
> > belt and pulley from mcmastercarr.com for about $60.
> > I went with a 1.5" wide belt with 1/2" pitch teeth and a pulley (H
> > series,
> >   16T, 2.8" o.d.), with double flanges for the motor, the belt just
> > runs on
> > the flats of the teeth on the spider of the l.g.
> > It made a huge difference on my hammer - I think the flat belt had
> > always
> > slipped a little on the small motor pulley. In theory this setup gives
> > my
> > hammer about 400rpm. Is this too fast? Seems to work better than it
> > ever
> > did with a 2.5" pulley on the motor.
> >
> > I think I have a photo of it around here - I'll see if I can post it
> > soon.
> >
> > Now I just have to tune up the clutch blocks on the hammer - I heard a
> > good trick was to replace the hardwood blocks with chunks of UHMWPE
> > (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene). They run smooth, and don't
> > require that just right amount of oiling the wood blocks do.
> >
> > Also, I've been thinking of making some new hammer dies from a36 and
> > then
> > casehardening them with casenite. Has anyone tried this? I worry that
> > the
> > case won't do much to stop the die from deforming deeper down in the
> > body
> > of the die. I can't really afford $250-$350 per set of dies, and it is
> > a
> > real pain to machine tool steel on my 3-in-1 mill.
> >
> >
> > On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 10:05 AM, Gladish Family wrote:
> >
> >> It's a cast iron 5 spoke pulley that somebody welded on, maybe in
> > hopes
> >> that
> >> they could use a 3450 motor.
> >> I have a  1725 with a 2" pulley, the original LG pulley is 10" which
> > is
> >> about right but the add-on makes it 13".
> >> 2 to 10 is 5x reduction, 345 beats per minute, a bit slow, but the
> > 2"
> >> pulley
> >> is really about 1 3/4 with the belts it's got.
> >> 2 to 13 is 265 bpm which is about what it's running (counting beats
> > for
> >> fifteen seconds, x 4) and it won't strike well at "full speed"
> > because it'
> >> s
> >> not cycling at full speed. The outer pulley's got to go. Its not
> > very well
> >> balanced, either- you can see that the inner (original) is running
> > true
> >> and
> >> the outer is wobbling. The babbitt it rides on will have to be
> > re-poured,
> >> too, since the wobble made it old before its time.
> >> Thanks, Peter- I'd forgotten about cutting with the welder since I
> > got all
> >> these other tools ;-)
> >> Worth a try, since I'm going by Sid's soon.
> >> Andy G.
> >>
> >>> First, I doubt this pulley is making your unit run slow.  It does
> > add
> >>> mass
> >>> and would affect startup but otherwise it would work as a flywheel.
> >>>
> >>> If this pulley is mounted between the bearings and you see a
> > wobble,
> >>> something more serious may be the problem.  It may be your shaft
> >>> is not true
> >>> and you can see the affect on the pulley.
> >>>
> >>> Is this a flat belt pulley mounted on the top shaft outside the
> > bearings?
> >>>
> >>> What are you cutting, the shaft or are you cutting up the pulley?
> >>>
> >>> If this pulley is mounted on the outside, you can use a puller to
> >>> remove it.
> >>> If it's mounted between the bearings, you can remove the shaft
> >>> and then take
> >>> off the pulley and check your shaft.
> >>>
> >>> I think it will be easier to remove the whole pulley as a unit
> > rather
> >>> than
> >>> cutting it off.  It would be better if you remove it all rather
> > than just
> >>> the spokes and rim.
> >>>
> >>> Walt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Gladish Family <[email protected]>
> >>> To: Theforge@Mailman. Qth. Net <[email protected]>
> >>> Date: Friday, August 09, 2002 1:41 AM
> >>> Subject: [TheForge] cast iron
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Anybody got the secret to cutting cast iron?
> >>>> Somebody back in the ancient mists of time added a dorky outer
> >>> pulley to my
> >>>> Little Giant, causing it to wobble and run too slow. I tried to
> >>> cut it off
> >>>> of there with the torch and it looked like it was going to make
> >>> a mess, and
> >>>> the sawzall isn't working either...
> >>>> Andy G
> >>>>
> >>>> No matter what happens, somebody will find a
> >>>> way to take it too seriously.
> >>>>                        Dave Barry
> >>>>
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> >                                       Cameron Stoker
> >     "May you run like a vicu�a!"
> >                                       [email protected]
> >
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>                                       Cameron Stoker
>     "May you run like a vicu�a!"
>                                       [email protected]
>
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