[TheForge] Damascus

[Dave Brown]

At 22:43 04/01/02 -0800, you wrote:

>and Jim Hirsuolas's
> > Get Wayne Goddard's books and read all about it.
> >

Getting the books will probably get Dan the answers he's looking for, but 
then I won't have learned anything.  I have only a small passing interest 
in damascus (small d).  Anyway, I'll take a stab at putting up some answers 
for discussion.

I'm a far cry from being a damascus expert of any kind and I'm sure I'm not 
completely right with what I think I know, but putting it out there is a 
sure way to find out where I'm off line and to learn some more.  So, that 
being said, here goes:

At 19:18 03/31/02 -0500, you wrote:

>#1.:
>         What is the definition of damascus?

What is made today and often called "damascus" (small 'd') is not actually 
Damascus (capitalized 'D') steel from what I understand.  It is, I think, 
more properly called "pattern welded steel" or something like that.  I 
think that the current use or misuse of the name Damascus is becoming like 
the words 'wrought iron' and that there are now two separate and distinct 
meanings applied/intended depending on usage.

(note:  all following answers/comments are based first on the assumption 
that Dan is asking about modern pattern welded material as opposed to the 
actual historic Damascene (aka Damascus) material.

>#2.:
>         Is forge welded cable damascus?

Based on the definition being "pattern welded steel", then I'd call forge 
welded cable "damascus" (small 'd')  In the historic sense the answer would 
be no.

>#3.:
>         IF the strands are all the same material ( same carbon content ),
>what makes the pattern when etched ?

I think (don't know for sure) that it is the line resulting from variations 
in carbon content resulting from the weld.  I could be all wet as far as 
this is concerned.  But I also think that slight imperfections in the weld 
itself could result in the lines etching out.

>#4.:
>         Draw work hardened or not,  the threads should be the same
>when forge welding temperature is reached. If you put even one dissimilar
>steel in the last fold, is it then damascus?

I think we're back to 'pattern welded" steel as a more correct 
name/descriptor.  That being the case, then sure, why not still 
damascus?  It's common to use nickle in combination with steel to make the 
patterns.  Again, and in the historic sense of the word the answer would be no.

>#5.:
>         What is the criteria for the  "best " knife?

Haven't a clue.  My limited experience with damascus has mostly been in 
discussion and I have only a passing interest in knives.  However I do have 
an interest in making flesh forks and spatulas (hamburger turners) and such 
using pattern welded mild steel.  It'll be interesting to see what others 
have to say about this, especially if you posted it to the knife-list (to 
which I'm not subscribed).

Dave Brown