Well as for the defrocking how about we give them the order of the PING where we use PING as meaning : PERSONA IRE NON GRATIA Ok it's a bit pigeon latin but sort of means "Character go! (you're) Not in FavouR" Yes I admit my latin's crap but then again it always was. Slim Haines GR4IPZ until May 9th when I become plain old G4IPZ again.