[SMCARA] Couterpoise Question

Thu Sep 25 10:25:11 EDT 2014

I go from the tuner into a switch panel..thru conduit out to the side of
the house into a box with my ICE supressors, then into conduit again to
cross the yard underground to the vertical.  its all RG-8 and for the past
oh...5 years or so I have yet to have any "RF in the shack" issues".  Like
the rest of the guys say.  Lay it out, see what it does.  If it works make
it permanent.  One thing that i consider not an option is surge
protection.  so do your research on polyphasors and ICE supressors (im an
ICE man).  Not much that the amateur world can offer will protect you from
a direct strike but others will help you to survive the near strikes.  But
I digress.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Bill Jones <merc669 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well elevated radials (counterpoise) would not work for me anyways. The
> better-half, dogs and grandkids would disapprove. And different reading for
> long wires are for the counterpoises to complete the other half of the
> circuit, otherwise the coax is used. How much feedback I am not sure but
> would prefer to not have it in the shack. So will try and get a few down
> and hopefully it will be good and I can enjoy getting on the air. Once
> everything else arrives...
>
> Bill
> KC3DEZ
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Rene Ramirez <w3bnyren at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I once got caught up in the whole counterpoise issue.  I have a zero
>> three antenna and I have 60 40' #14 stranded THHN lowes copper wire at dirt
>> level.  IF you can elevate them then yes you can do the tuned radials thing
>> (which I might add can be a PITN...literally if you clothes line yourself)
>> but not actually needed.  Why 60 radials?  thats all the holes my DX
>> engineering mounting plate had.  I could have doubled up to 120 radials but
>> I felt it wasnt necessary.  Yeah I could have gone and done some modeling
>> etc but I wanted to get on the air.  and 60 40' radials is a fair amount of
>> wire to measure, cut, crimp, solder, wash, rinse, repeat!  Also, funny
>> thing about elevated radials is you really cant use that area for any kind
>> of recreation, dog walking etc without disturbing them.  bummer...
>>
>> So just get wires down, (there is a method to do this and its almost time
>> to start that will keep your radials and the mower from meeting...ask me
>> offline or separate email on how to do this) and the antenna up and get on
>> the air and see what it does.
>>
>> Ren...
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Bill Jones <merc669 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The End-Fed antenna is the Ultimax DxExtream 77 foot antenna. This I plan
>>> on one end in a tree about 40 feet up and slope it to 10. The balun
>>> itself
>>> will also have a 1:1 isolation balun for RF feedback prevention near the
>>> feedpoint and then going into the house. I have also read that length
>>> does
>>> not matter for counterpoise and others that say run a single length for
>>> the
>>> lowest band and have a few of these laid. All different opinions...
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> KC3DEZ
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Clarke, Tom AIR4.0P NATOPS <
>>> frederic.clarke at navy.mil> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Bill,
>>> >
>>> > I think the answer is "it depends"!  Conventional wisdom has it that
>>> the
>>> > length of the radials are not as critical when on the ground or buried.
>>> > Ground conductivity gets into the act here also. Things would be quite
>>> > different in Arizona!
>>> >
>>> >  In your case the 8.6 foot radial is a "tuned" radial and should be in
>>> the
>>> > same plane as the antenna, although not critical if it hangs vertically
>>> > (although it may affect the directionality somewhat.  In the case of
>>> the 80
>>> > meter radial, again it should be elevated to function as a tuned
>>> radial,
>>> > but if your situation calls for it to be on the ground, the elevation
>>> of
>>> > the feedpoint should not be added to the radial length, as it is all
>>> part
>>> > of the radial length.  Since part of the counterpoise is on the
>>> ground, it
>>> > will become detuned by the earth anyway.  There are several treatises
>>> in
>>> > the ARRL archives concerning grounds, radials, and counterpoises.
>>> >
>>> > FYI, I have a ground  mounted vertical antenna and I simply have 32,
>>> > twenty-five foot radials on the ground or slightly buried.  This works
>>> very
>>> > well.  When I had this antenna mounted on a tile roof in EA7 land, I
>>> used 4
>>> > elevated,  stub-tuned radials which worked very well. Adding additional
>>> > radials on the roof did not make any noticeable difference.
>>> >
>>> > What kind of end fed antenna are you using?
>>> >
>>> > Tom/W4OKW
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: SMCARA [mailto:smcara-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
>>> > Jones
>>> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 6:08 AM
>>> > To: smcara at mailman.qth.net
>>> > Subject: [SMCARA] Couterpoise Question
>>> >
>>> > If I need a 65 to 70 foot counterpoise for 80 Meters and a 8.6 foot
>>> one for
>>> > 10  Meters and my balun from my end-fed antenna is 10 foot up do I
>>> need to
>>> > add 10 feet to the math to get the counterpoise to ground level for it
>>> to
>>> > be effective. In the example of 10 meters the wire is just hanging in
>>> air.
>>> > These would be run opposite to the feedline. Thanks!
>>> >
>>> > Bill
>>> > ______________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>