[SMCARA] Couterpoise Question

[Clarke, Tom AIR4.0P NATOPS]

Absolutely!  There is a whole lot of magic involved also.  Put it up and let 'er rip!  Try different things and you will find the "sweet spot" I am sure.  I think having the 10 M radial hang down and the 80 meter radial going down and along the ground will work great.

Let us know how it plays.

Tom/W4OKW

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Jones [mailto:merc669 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 9:41 AM
To: Clarke, Tom AIR4.0P NATOPS
Cc: smcara at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [SMCARA] Couterpoise Question

The End-Fed antenna is the Ultimax DxExtream 77 foot antenna. This I plan on one end in a tree about 40 feet up and slope it to 10. The balun itself will also have a 1:1 isolation balun for RF feedback prevention near the feedpoint and then going into the house. I have also read that length does not matter for counterpoise and others that say run a single length for the lowest band and have a few of these laid. All different opinions...


Bill
KC3DEZ

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Clarke, Tom AIR4.0P NATOPS <frederic.clarke at navy.mil> wrote:


        Bill,

        I think the answer is "it depends"!  Conventional wisdom has it that the length of the radials are not as critical when on the ground or buried.  Ground conductivity gets into the act here also. Things would be quite different in Arizona!

         In your case the 8.6 foot radial is a "tuned" radial and should be in the same plane as the antenna, although not critical if it hangs vertically (although it may affect the directionality somewhat.  In the case of the 80 meter radial, again it should be elevated to function as a tuned radial, but if your situation calls for it to be on the ground, the elevation  of the feedpoint should not be added to the radial length, as it is all part of the radial length.  Since part of the counterpoise is on the ground, it will become detuned by the earth anyway.  There are several treatises in the ARRL archives concerning grounds, radials, and counterpoises.

        FYI, I have a ground  mounted vertical antenna and I simply have 32,  twenty-five foot radials on the ground or slightly buried.  This works very well.  When I had this antenna mounted on a tile roof in EA7 land, I used 4 elevated,  stub-tuned radials which worked very well. Adding additional radials on the roof did not make any noticeable difference.

        What kind of end fed antenna are you using?

        Tom/W4OKW


        -----Original Message-----
        From: SMCARA [mailto:smcara-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Jones
        Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 6:08 AM
        To: smcara at mailman.qth.net
        Subject: [SMCARA] Couterpoise Question

        If I need a 65 to 70 foot counterpoise for 80 Meters and a 8.6 foot one for
        10  Meters and my balun from my end-fed antenna is 10 foot up do I need to add 10 feet to the math to get the counterpoise to ground level for it to be effective. In the example of 10 meters the wire is just hanging in air.
        These would be run opposite to the feedline. Thanks!

        Bill

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