[SFDXA] CW in Ham Radio

Bill Marx bmarx at bellsouth.net
Sat Feb 4 15:06:40 EST 2012 

Pete's right on all he said. 

By faster I meant the tx rx turnover. Not break in like CW. But a semi break in making Contests and DX pileups easier. That's why RTTY is used for it more than the others. 

In the 80's I was first in world to work DXCC on Amtor. Now that was fun. 

I stand at 312 now on RTTY awaiting the elusive ones. 

Bill W2CQ



Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2012, at 2:19 PM, "Pete Rimmel N8PR" <n8pr1 at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Here's my 2c worth:
> 
> I started RTTY DXing several sunspot cycles ago, when there were no new ones 
> to find on other modes.  I got into contesting, which was fun.  at one 
> point, my hand on the mouse melded my mind with the screen and I suddenly 
> realized that I was operating "automatically" , watching the cursor move 
> around the screen without any conscious effort.  That was FUN !.  Ragchewing 
> and chasing DX are both fun.  It is a test of your station...  RTTY, like FM 
> is a capture mode.  the strongest signal is decoded - only that one.  In a 
> pile up, one can determine where he stands in signal strength as well as 
> operating technique to be heard at the other end.  It is truly an 
> accomplishment to work 'em with 'one call' on RTTY.  You know you are loud 
> there.
> 
> THe RTTY community is growing.  back 20-30 years ago you made friends 
> because fewer were on, and you bumped into the same people regularly and 
> became friends.  Kinda like 160 or 6 meters or EME ops.  It was a more 
> specialized mode and community.  Now days, with computers and laptops on 
> DXpeditions, two things have evolved.  The LID is more prevalent, but 
> hapilly, the DX can get on RTTY with their logging computer and not much 
> more, giving them more to work and us more DX countries to work.
> 
> There was a time when 300 on RTTY was the top of the pile, because a number 
> of countries had never been activated on RTTY.
> 
> Hope this helps explain the fascination with the RTTY mode...  PSK31 is a 
> different flavor, and I don't like it as much.  One of the big problems is 
> QRM which is unintentional.  I can't tell you how many times I have been in 
> a ragchew on PSK and been QRMed by ops who either don't know how to operate 
> and listen, or don't hear the other half of my QSL and just start on what 
> appears to be a clear Frequency.  Remember...  most PSK31 QSOs take place 
> with ops running 50 watts  or less.  That means that signals are not heard 
> as far and as well throughout the globe.  AND if you insist, as KAI does on 
> working QRPp even fewer hear you.  THen it is not unexpected to hear QRM on 
> your freq. because others don't know you are there.    That is the one 
> failing of the PSK31 mode.  ANother is that it is a POOR mode for 
> contesting, and therefore RTTY has sustained as THE digital mode for 
> contesting.
> 
> I guess that was 3c worth.  HI HI.
> 
> 73,  PeteR  N8PR    301 and counting on Digital modes
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Kai Siwiak
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:51 PM
> To: Bill
> Cc: SFDXA at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [SFDXA] CW in Ham Radio
> 
> Bill
> Good point!  45.45 baud RTTY would work out to almost 57 WPM, only PSK63
> edges that out, but it is not as popular as PSK31.  On the other hand,
> JT65  (the "watching grass grow mode")   gets a staggering 13 characters
> per minute (in free text mode) or about 2.6 WPM!
> Kai
> 
> Bill wrote:
>> BTW I didn't mention it before but RTTY is just plain faster than the
>> other digital modes. Faster on and off as in CW and SSB. Just the main
>> reason it is used for contests and DXing competition.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/4/2012 12:57 PM, Kai Siwiak wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Sebastian,
>>> That K3 is a lovely rig - got a chance to use one thru the night on CW
>>> during ARRL Field Day.
>>> 
>>> I'm sure that quite a few folks will answer you about RTTY on this
>>> reflector. There are two kinds of RTTY ops: the "traditionalist" who
>>> emulate the style and old terminology of wireline RTTY, and guys like my
>>> where RTTY is just another sound card digital mode.
>>> RTTY is "traditional", but  I use  RTTY with rig set to upper SSB (same
>>> as I use for PSK31 and JT65), barebones MMTTY software, and no
>>> contesting except to snag a "new one".  The traditionalist have their
>>> stations honed for serious contest work, but that's not my interest.
>>> 
>>> A RTTY link is just a few dB below a CW path link, and about 12 dB
>>> better than SSB.
>>> With software like MMTTY and the loggers that use it as the RTTY engine
>>> it is possible to just click on the signal in the display for instant
>>> tuning.  I guess that is how the DXexpedition ops do it.  I use RTTY
>>> because DXpeditions use RTTY and it is the only path to "digital DXCC".
>>> That is how I earned the WAS Triple Play Award (although, any digi modes
>>> count there). RTTY is not so bad for DXpeditions, however, listening to
>>> the pileups I conclude that comparatively few hams know how to operate
>>> DX-RTTY.  It is possible to get DX using QRP RTTY; N4II and I did it 5
>>> times using just 5 watts from K4FK.
>>> 
>>> While I am not a RTTY geek by any stretch of the imagination, I can say
>>> that using RTTY can increase your DXCC count. That is the reason to use
>>> RTTY.
>>> 
>>> Cheers and 73,
>>> Kai, KE4PT
>>> 
>>> Sebastian, W4AS wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Time to brag about my K3, it can do the same (decode RTTY/PSK31 without 
>>>> a computer attached).  And you can even send RTTY/PSK31 with just the 
>>>> internal keyer, although I've never tried that.
>>>> 
>>>> Having made very few RTTY QSOs over the years, I'm really puzzled as to 
>>>> why it's so popular - someone please tell me what I've been missing.
>>>> 
>>>> To me, it appears to be the most inefficient mode for DXing and 
>>>> contesting.  Having listened to the HK0NA pileups on RTTY, the DX 
>>>> station has to exactly tune in to a caller, and may have to wait for the 
>>>> caller to repeat if the caller just stopped his transmission.  If 
>>>> another station obliterates that caller, then the DX station has to 
>>>> start all over again.  And of course there's no break-in or error 
>>>> correction.
>>>> 
>>>> Compared to CW or voice, when a DX station can hear a partial call, and 
>>>> just say for example, "the N8 again".
>>>> 
>>>> Not knocking the mode, I'd just like to find a RTTY geek who can tell me 
>>>> why I should use it more often
>>>> 
>>>> 73 de Sebastian, W4AS
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 4, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Pete Rimmel N8PR wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Kai,
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Icom 7600 does not need a computer to do RTTY or PSK31 It will send 
>>>>> and
>>>>> receive both with a mini keyboard attached, not much larger than a 
>>>>> paddle.
>>>>> 
>>>>> PeteR
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Kai Siwiak
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:48 AM
>>>>> To: Bill
>>>>> Cc: aSFDXA
>>>>> Subject: Re: [SFDXA] CW in Ham Radio
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>> That's a great article with good reliance on reliable numbers, but it
>>>>> misses a critically key point about technical performance. That is, CW
>>>>> outperforms SSB by around  17 dB --  a power ratio of 50!  This means 
>>>>> CW
>>>>> can potentially talk 5 to 6 times as far as SSB.  Out of the three 
>>>>> modes
>>>>> that DXpeditions favor (CW, RTTY, SSB) it provides the best range. It 
>>>>> is
>>>>> around 3-7 dB better than RTTY.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is also the ONLY digital mode that can be done with just a radio and
>>>>> with no additional computer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> CW is not going away too soon!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Kai, KE4PT
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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> ______________________________________________________________
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