[Scan-DC] Homeland Security subcommittee interoperability discussion

[Alan Henney]

Some interesting tidbits regarding interoperability from last Wednesday’s Homeland Security subcommittee discussion on public transportation.

“I know that every study that's been done and every investigation since 2001 says that interoperability and communication between agencies is very important. There are radios that we purchased that have the ability to speak in every county that we cover in Pennsylvania, that's five counties. Those radios are $8,000.00. The issue that we've run into is that jurisdictional blockades are presented in using those radios in some jurisdictions because they don't want other police agencies communicating on their band. 

I think that the FCC could probably become involved and encourage multi-jurisdictional areas to be able to communicate on the same band if the radios are available. SEPTA committed to purchasing several of those radios, so it wasn't even a grant function and yet, we can't use it in some places. That's important. 

The third issue is jurisdictional issues. Transit agencies have a unique jurisdictional challenge. During the Pope's visit, a high- ranking police official from a jurisdiction showed up at a pre- planning meeting and read a letter saying that the Transit Police Authority ends at the sidewalk and they do not possess police authority beyond that sidewalk. That's not the kind of jurisdictional assistance that needs to be had in policing and preventing terrorism. We need to have that ability for transit police to travel across state lines, to travel within county borders and to have the same police authority as the jurisdictions that are responsible for protecting that community. 

....

One thing that I was concerned within my days as a prosecutor was the interoperability issue with radios as well. We had a lot of those concerns and I heard that from I think it was you, Mr. Nestel, or it was yes, I'd like to hear a little more about that and how we can help fix that because to me that's an -- that should be an easy fix and it's frustrating at times to me that when, you know not on law enforcement agencies were on the same frequencies and it's just maddening that we can't fix something as easy as that, so I'd like to hear something we could do to fix that first of all. 

NESTEL: Congressman, the technology is there. It's expensive and once it's expensive, it's getting over the hurdles of jurisdictional acceptance. When a different jurisdiction is speaking on your radio band, it's the different languages. It's the control of those conversations. It's access to information, you know, there's always a concern when your radio communication is being monitored by others that you don't know. 

So there are obvious hurdles that have to be crossed before we can have that ability to communicate. During an emergency, we have interoperability where we could plug in from SEPTA headquarters. We can plug in all the local jurisdictions onto one band to handle that emergency. It exists. We have it. 

This is the normal day-to-day communication, you know, a suspicious person in a track area between Warminster and Hatboro in in Bucks County would warrant communication with that jurisdiction and we would have the ability to just switch a radio band and the officers responding would then be on the band of that jurisdiction who is also responding. That's a huge benefit for us, huge benefit. 

So it would be cost and it would be logistics of acceptance. 

KATKO: Okay, thank you. Anybody else want to add to that. No? 

LEMANOWICZ: It's called Statecom (ph), which most of all agencies across the state as well as all local and municipal county resources could all jump on. We're in a process right now in trying to identify certain channels right now, so they get a target hardening channel where it's made up with different agencies and they're going around with VIPR teams and other groups in overt and covert capacities in a prevention and protection based model, not response, but prevention and protection. 

So that's the collaboration part, but how do we talk is through these group channels. It's not taking ownership of another agency's primary, it's just giving an opportunity that they can quickly click over to this channel and speak.”



Here is the entire transcript...

Political Transcript Wire

HOMELAND TRANSPORTATION HEARING ON SECURING PUBLIC AREAS OF TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS

November 29, 2017 Wednesday

Homeland, Subcommittee on Transportation and Protective Security Hearing on Securing Public Areas of Transportation Systems

NOVEMBER 28,2017

SPEAKERS: REP. JOHN KATKO, R-N.Y. CHAIRMAN REP. MIKE D. ROGERS, R-ALA. REP. CLAY HIGGINS, R-LA. REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK, R-PA. REP. RON ESTES, R-KAN. REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, R-TEXAS EX OFFICIO

REP. BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, D-N.J. RANKING MEMBER REP. WILLIAM KEATING, D-MASS. REP. DONALD M. PAYNE JR., D-N.J. REP. BENNIE THOMPSON, D-MISS. EX OFFICIO

WITNESSES: CHARLES CUNNINGHAM, DIRECTOR OF HOMELAND SECURITY, EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, DELAWARE RIVER PORT AUTHORITY (DRPA) , PUBLIC SAFETY/PATCO

THOMAS NESTEL III, CHIEF, TRANSIT POLICE, SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY

DOUGLAS LEMANOWICZ, LIEUTENANT, NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE, SPECIAL OPERATIONS SECTION

CHRISTOPHER TRUCILLO, CHIEF , NEW JERSEY TRANSIT POLICE

[*] KATKO: The Committee on Homeland Security and Subcommittee on Transportation Protective Security will come to order. 

The Subcommittee is meeting today to examine the existing security measures that safeguard surface transportation systems and identify ways that the Federal government can help state and local transit agencies protect their enormous ridership. 

I'd like to thank the City of Trenton and the City Council for allowing us to have this very important hearing in these beautiful historic chambers. This is an official Congressional hearing and as such, we must abide by the rules of the Committee on Homeland Security and the House of Representatives. 

I kindly wish to remind the guests today that demonstrations from the audience including applause and verbal outbursts, as well as any use of signs or placards are violation of House rules. 

It is important that we respect the decorum and the rules of this Committee. I've also been requested to state that photography and cameras are limited to access by accredited press only. 

I now recognize myself for an opening statement. 

I'm very pleased to be joined today by two home towners here or close to being home towners -- Ranking Member Bonnie Watson Coleman and Congressman Fitzpatrick -- to discuss a topic that is vital to the safety and economic vitality of the Northeast region and the greater United States. 

I applaud the Ranking Member for her hard work and dedication of Homeland Security and it is an honor to be here today in your district to hear directly from both you and Congressman Fitzpatrick's constituents on how to better secure the transit systems. 

Mass transit is critical to the livelihood of many Americans and provides an integral backbone of this economy. Recent terror attacks like the one in Brussels that targeted an international airport and a metro station have made us more cognizant than ever of the vulnerabilities in our transportation systems. 

Surface transportation systems are a very attractive target due to the large volume of daily ridership and open infrastructure. Mass transit systems face unique challenges and screening passengers, closing resource gaps and targeting assistance from the Department of Homeland Security. 

To put this into context, surface transportation modes serve over 10 billion riders annually compared to an average of 800 million U.S. aviation passengers a year, that's more than times the number of people that fly take part in mass transit other than flying, and it is our duty to ensure that local stakeholders and law enforcement have the resources they need to keep their riders and their systems safe. 

The purpose of today's hearing is to assess our ability and readiness to detect and disrupt threats to our nation's critical surface transportation systems. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the current threat landscape as well as the effectiveness of established security measures. 

Surface transportation systems are largely owned and operated by state and local entities, further complicating the Department of Homeland Security's responsibility as a primary Federal agency responsible for securing the numerous and diverse modes of transit. 

These systems are difficult to secure due to their open infrastructure, multiple access points, and hubs serving multiple carriers and in some cases lack of access barriers. Additionally, considering the significant volume of daily ridership via surface transportation modes, delays or system shutdowns in response to threats can cripple the local economy. The multi-layered security approach at airports including advanced passenger screening, metal detectors, x-ray machines and advanced imaging technology, explosive detection canines, and armed law enforcement personnel cannot be easily replicated in the surface transportation sector. 

The delays and costs associated with measures would undermine the affordability and expediency of mass transit. Easy accessibility and relative affordability are part of what makes mass transit and rail transportation so popular among the American public and help keep our local, regional and national economies humming. 

However, these benefits can also be exploited by terrorists as inherent vulnerabilities in surface transportation. Because of the difficulties associated with security screening people and goods on the train, Metro or bus, intelligence sharing deterrence and detection measures as well as modern technology are extremely important. 

The security of a transit environment that spans multiple geographic jurisdictions and that integrates multiple law enforcement agencies depends upon seamless interagency coordination. 

All of you are invited here today because you are in the front lines and your first-hand knowledge and expertise is going to be invaluable to us. I look forward to hearing from all of you about how the Federal government can better coordinate with local state and local surface transportation partners and law enforcement personnel to protect their traveling public despite the fact that I understand that some of you are Philadelphia Eagles fans and I'm a New York Giants fan, but we'll have to deal with that and so we will. 

I now recognize the Ranking Member Ms. Watson Coleman for her opening statement. 

WATSON COLEMAN: Good morning, I would like to thank Chairman Katko for agreeing to hold this hearing today in the capital city of New Jersey -- Trenton, New Jersey. I'd also like to thank Mr. Fitzpatrick for traveling to my district to join us as we seek to better understand how the Federal government can partner more effectively and make our surface transportation in public areas more secure. 

Before I turn to the subject at hand, I'd like to extend a special thank you to our hosts here at City Hall who went the extra mile to help ensure that we have a successful hearing and I particularly like to acknowledge the president of our City Council, Mr. Zachary Chester for being here this morning. Thank you. 

The top congressional district of New Jersey in which we sit today is connected by a complex web of transit systems. Every day thousands of passengers pass through my district on New Jersey Transit SEPTA and Amtrak trains. 

The safe and secure operation of transit systems is essential to the social and economic well-being of the people I serve. Their ability to travel safely depends upon the security efforts of today's panelists who face a daunting task. 

The terrorists have targeted soft targets such as subways, mass transit stations and public airport areas in the United States and abroad. Last year, just up the road in Elizabethtown, five pipe bombs were found near a transit station and one exploded as police were attempting to disarm it. Thankfully, there were no injuries, but the need to protect against threats to these systems is very clear. 

The emergence of a class of would-be terrorists who has little to no training, financial support or direction carry out crimes of opportunity against innocent people demands greater vigilance and collaboration at all levels of government. Securing these critical transportation systems requires a layered, risk-based, well-resourced approach. Unfortunately, the budget that the President has proposed for fiscal year 218 goes in the opposite direction and calls for draconian cuts to almost every relevant Federal program. 

Last year, the President of the American Public Transit Association testified before a Senate Subcommittee that transit agencies across the United States had identified $6 billion in capital and operational security needs, yet the President wants to cut the Transit Security Grant Program, the primary source of Federal security funds for most transit agencies from $88 billion to just $48 million. 

He also is proposing significant cuts to the TSA's Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response Program also known as VIPR. Under this program, TSA officials, Federal air marshals and K9 teams partner together with transit police and other local law enforcement to carry out security operations within surface transportation systems and public airport areas. 

Under the President's budget, the number of VIPR teams would drop from 31 teams to eight. Finally, the President is proposing a complete elimination of Law Enforcement Officer Reimbursement Program. Under this critical program, local law enforcement agencies receive partial Federal reimbursement for deploying officers at airports. In 2017, the program was funded at $44 million. The cuts that the President is seeking would come at the cost of the security of transportation systems in the 12th Congressional District and across this country. 

Later today, when we return to Washington, I will be introducing a bill to push back against these reckless cuts. My legislation known as the Surface Transportation and Public Areas Security Act of 2017 seeks to not only secure, revamp and resource important programs aimed at securing critical soft targets, but also greatly enhances Federal partnership with Federal, state and local stakeholders to protect those vital systems and the people who use them. 

In addition to authorizing $400 million for the Transit Security Grant Program directing TSA to maintain 60 VIPR teams and restoring funding for Law Enforcement Officer Reimbursement Programs, my bill would also make law enforcement reimbursement available for surface transportation, increase the deployment of explosive detection canines to surface transportation require every view of whether it is appropriate for people to be able to carry guns into public transportation areas and direct the dissemination of best practices for securing against vehicle- based attacks, such as the attack we witnessed recently in New York. 

A bill focused on securing these aspects of our transportation system is long past due. Today's hearing is a great opportunity to start a meaningful conversation on about how we can work together to make these systems more secure, so I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about their security needs and how we can be helpful and again, I thank my colleagues for joining me here today in Trenton and hope for a productive discussion today, and with that Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. 

KATKO: Thank you Ms. Watson Coleman. Other members of the Committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. 

We are pleased to have a group of distinguished witnesses before us today to speak on this timely and important topic. Let me remind the witnesses that their entire written statements will appear in the record. 

Our first witness is Mr. Charles Cunningham, the director of Homeland Security and Emergency Management for the Delaware River Port Authority. Mr. Cunningham previously served in the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I was a Federal organized crime prosecutor for 20 years, so I like you guys, and more recently was a National Account Regional Manager at Allied Universal. The Chairman now recognizes Mr. Cunningham to testify for five minutes. 

CUNNINGHAM: Thank you, sir. Good morning, Chairman Katko, Ranking Member Watson Coleman and Congressman Fitzpatrick. Thank you for inviting me to discuss security at PATCO and Delaware River Port Authority. 

Joining me today is William Shanahan, Director of Government Relations and Grant Administration at the Delaware River Port Authority and Chair of the Philadelphia Area Regional Transit Security Working Group -- PARTSWG. 

Before joining the DRPA/PATCO in August 2017 as the Director of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, I served as a special agent in charge of the Richmond Division of the FBI and was responsible for national security crisis response, counterterrorism investigations, threats throughout the state of Virginia. 

I oversaw and directed the Virginia Joint Terrorism Task Force, as well as counterintelligence matters. During my 22-year career in the FBI, I also served as a chief of organized crime and chief of violent crime for the Bureau. 

Before joining the FBI, I served as a police officer in Montgomery County in Pennsylvania and four and a half years as a Pennsylvania State Trooper and I am proud to have served honorably in the United States Air Force. 

I'm responsible for the physical security of the DRPA/PATCO assets. This includes four major river crossings, one bridge, the Benjamin Franklin is designated as a top transit asset that connects Philadelphia and South Jersey regions as well as the PATCO line. The hallmark of protecting our 100-square mile territory is collaboration. 

We work closely with numerous other police departments in municipalities to ensure that capital investments are consistent with current security and homeland security strategies. 

The DRPA and PATCO Police Departments were unified in recent years. The department has sworn officers and two K9 teams. Previously, when funds were available, we had strategically and successfully deployed VIPR units or Visual Intermodal Prevention and Response teams on the PATCO line and stations. Currently, we routinely patrol the entire PATCO rail transit system. 

Through our regional transit security working group, PARTSWG, we have developed a robust public security awareness program with our award-winning, "Look Up, Speak Up" campaign. This campaign engages the public through targeted advertising on both traditional and social media. 

Results are captured through the scientific polling by Zogby Analytics. The campaign teaches the riding public to observe what doesn't appear to be routine. Look up and either text, call or email information and speak up to train transit intelligence professionals for analysis. This is coupled with security awareness training for civilian frontline employees with the focus on education -- educating individuals to be aware of suspicious activity and to report that behavior. 

One critical layer to our security is the structure on technological hardening of our infrastructure since 9/11. The DRPA/PATCO leadership has created a robust capital program which is dedicated to enhancing our security posture by hardening our subway and transit rail systems, communications and our bridges. 

Another layer of PATCO's security strategy is communication and intelligence sharing. At the Federal level, we have an excellent working relationship with our DHS partners -- FEMA and TSA. We meet regularly and continually exchange information with regional partners and we maintain an outstanding level of collaboration to thwart potential attacks. We share intelligence with many law enforcement agencies on a daily basis through our PARTSWG group. DRPA/PATCO coordinates with the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, the FBI Cyber Crimes Unit, Delaware Valley Intelligence Center, the DVIC; the New Jersey Real Time Crime Center and many others. 

We've benefited from over $60 million in direct and regional support of our security program from the Department of Homeland Security since 2005. This funding was essential in creating a true regional effort to detect, deter, protect and mitigate the threat of terrorism against our regional transportation infrastructure, but this effort is far from complete. 

Physical hardening and regional asset integration must continue. Operational and sustainability efforts must continue. Investments in cameras, sensors et cetera must be protected by continuing maintenance programs and digital records must be managed and stored. We need to continue reaching out to the public. They are surely the force multiplier that we must be continue to engage and last but not least, specialized intelligence for transit partners in the center of gravity of this effort. 

Stopping those would do riders harm before an incident is the best-case scenario. Unfortunately, the trend of shrinking national grant programs has limited our ability to move forward with our capital security mitigations. Since 2005, the national program is less than half funded. That means that projects that met all the criteria funding and were funded and executed several years ago are no longer eligible because the money is no longer there. 

We need to change this narrative and evaluate security projects based on their merits again and not solely on whether there is enough funding to move forward. I'm proud to be part of the proactive homeland security emergency preparedness DRPA/PATCO team and help to protect the people who travel on our bridges and rail transit system, our employees in the region in general. 

We have dedicated personnel who work extremely hard to ensure the safety of all of our stakeholders and the assets with which we are entrusted and we look forward to continuing to work with you, our elected representatives in the House. 

KATKO: Thank you, Mr. Cunningham, for your testimony and I thank you for your service with the FBI and in your current position. We definitely appreciate you being here today. 

Our second witness is Thomas Nestel who currently serves as the Chief of Transit Police at the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority. Previously, Mr. Nestel was the Chief of Police for the Upper Moreland Township. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Nestel to testify for five minutes. 

NESTEL: Good morning, Chairman Katko. Congresswoman Watson Coleman, and Congressman Fitzpatrick. I count on the fact that the statement is part of the record so I'm not going to read you that statement. 

I would like to amend one section and that is the paragraph regarding the special events that SEPTA has been responsible for providing service and at the upcoming Super Bowl championship parade that we'll be covering. 

KATKO: It's nice to dream, Mr. Nestel. That's what I like to hear. Or should I say fantasize, one or the (inaudible)... 

(CROSSTALK) 

NESTEL: I think that everybody that's coming here to address you today and each of you understands the technology is the greatest need in mass transit and second to that is grant funding, so I'm going to steer away from those two because I don't think that we can more strongly emphasize the fact that those two are necessary. 

I want to bring to your attention a couple of other issues. I'm a fourth-generation police officer. I've been a police officer for 35 years. When I got up this morning, I still love my job. I love being a police officer. 

I think that the folks that are out on the line and working in cities and states throughout our nation are dedicated people who are challenged every day with making the public safe. I have officers that that I admire greatly who keep our system safe with a million rides a day. I think that -- I've learned that that presenting complaints is less memorable than presenting solutions, so I want to be remembered. I'd like to give you some potential solutions to problems that I've recognized in my jurisdiction. 

The first is the need for resources. Everyone needs resources. I think that the VIPR program was a wonderful program for us because the Federal Air Marshals teamed up with our officers and patrolled high-volume areas during special events. I think that that can be expanded to a number of Federal agencies that work in Philadelphia who could supplement our patrols during specific times of the day to provide a counterterrorism front. We have to address crime control every day. 

We look to our partners to help us with terrorism prevention, so that's the first. The second is communication. I know that every study that's been done and every investigation since 2001 says that interoperability and communication between agencies is very important. There are radios that we purchased that have the ability to speak in every county that we cover in Pennsylvania, that's five counties. Those radios are $8,000.00. The issue that we've run into is that jurisdictional blockades are presented in using those radios in some jurisdictions because they don't want other police agencies communicating on their band. 

I think that the FCC could probably become involved and encourage multi-jurisdictional areas to be able to communicate on the same band if the radios are available. SEPTA committed to purchasing several of those radios, so it wasn't even a grant function and yet, we can't use it in some places. That's important. 

The third issue is jurisdictional issues. Transit agencies have a unique jurisdictional challenge. During the Pope's visit, a high- ranking police official from a jurisdiction showed up at a pre- planning meeting and read a letter saying that the Transit Police Authority ends at the sidewalk and they do not possess police authority beyond that sidewalk. That's not the kind of jurisdictional assistance that needs to be had in policing and preventing terrorism. We need to have that ability for transit police to travel across state lines, to travel within county borders and to have the same police authority as the jurisdictions that are responsible for protecting that community. 

So those are our three recommendations and three issues that I wanted to bring to your attention aside from the technology and grant funding issues and I'm happy to answer any questions. 

KATKO: That's amazing it's almost five minutes exactly. Not bad. Thank you Mr. Nestel for your testimony. We appreciate you taking time to be here today. Normally, I would continue introducing the witnesses, but Ms. Watson Coleman, I think would like to introduce the next two. Ms. Watson Coleman. 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our next witness is Mr. Douglas Lemanowicz. Did I just slay that? 

LEMANOWICZ: No, ma'am. WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you so much. Mr. Lemanowicz was a member of the Fairleigh Dickenson University School of Safety Board. He also helps to provide analysis of school violence and school shootings to Homeland Security personnel. He is a New Jersey State Trooper and is currently assigned as a Unit Head for the Urban Search-and-Rescue Unit within the Emergency Management Section. 

Prior assignments were on the Technical Emergency and Mission Specialist Unit with the NJSP Homeland Security branch and Special Operations Section. Through his specialized training, Mr. Lemanowicz has gained experience in special weapons and tactics, counterterrorism methods, weapons of mass destruction, crisis preparedness and active shootings and we're delighted to have you here. Welcome your testimony. 

LEMANOWICZ: Thank you for the opportunity for us. The New Jersey State Police is comprised of four primary branches -- Administration, Investigations, Homeland Security and operations. Through these branches and other specialized offices, the Division maintains a network of information sharing and collaborative efforts to conduct effective operations. Members within these groups also maintain critical relations with outside agencies to promote abilities to counter terrorists and criminal activities in numerous critical infrastructure sectors and countless soft targets. 

Presidential Policy Directive 8: National Preparedness describes a nation's approach to preparing where the threats and hazards that pose the greatest risk to the security of the United States. National Preparedness is defined as the actions taken to plan, organize, equip, train and exercise to build and sustain capabilities necessary to prevent, protect against, mitigate the effects of, respond to and recover from those threats that pose the greatest risk to the nation. 

Through the guidance of PPD-8 frameworks, consideration must be given to enhancing and fortifying capabilities and preventing, detecting and deterring the threats and attacks within the state of New Jersey. 

The threat of terrorism and the acts of violent crime has become too common in the United States. The New Jersey State Police assumes a great duty in defending the state against terrorist attacks and violent crimes. Preparedness is a shared responsibility and requires a whole community effort to promote safety and resilience through a common goal. It is vital that all partners build, organize and enhance capabilities in a unified approach to build better prepared to counter all hazard and threats in our communities. 

Our mission within the division of the State Police is to develop innovative strategies and partnerships with public and private entities to prevent, interdict, protect and respond to threats that target our state. Through communal target hardening coordination, protective measure consultation, infrastructure and event vulnerability assessments, real-time data analysis and situational awareness tracking, interagency communication and direct counter operational deployments, our goal is to thwart terror. The Office of Target Hardening was established in the Special Operations Section in the Homeland Security branch in July of 2016. Their primary mission is to effectively implement and developed target hardening strategies to deter terrorist activities. 

This office works collaboratively with other specialized groups within the division, as well as with other Federal, state, county and local mission partners. This is demonstrated in the monthly meeting at the Regional Operations Center known as the ROC where mission partner representatives assemble to discuss new intelligence, special events, current threats, lessons learned, best practices and operational recommendations. These partners include but are not limited to the New Jersey State Police Threat Analysis and Critical Infrastructure Units, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Office of Homeland Security and Preparedness, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Transportation Security Administration, New Jersey Office of Emergency Management and the National Counterterrorism Center. 

These daily, weekly and monthly discussions are our cycle of preparedness, where we, as a team of teams auto adapt to the evolving threat through collaboration, information sharing, intelligence, prevention, awareness and response. The Division of State Police deploys target hardening missions regularly due to the shared network from our mission partners. 

The Office of Target Hardening organizes and directs New Jersey State Police units which specialize in explosive and hazardous materials detection, suspicious activity detection interception, counter assault tactics, maritime security, commercial motor vehicle and motor coach safety, aviation surveillance and insertion operations and highway transportation systems resiliency into target areas. 

This also -- this office also de-conflicts with other agencies and specialized units in order to conduct safe, coordinated prevention and protection based operations. 

Today's threat environment domestically and internationally is wrought with an ideology committed to the destruction of the established Western culture. The world has seen a significant spike in foreign and domestic terrorist attacks resulting in death, destruction, intimidation and fear. The United States is the ultimate prize for those seeking to strike a blow at our way of living. This ideology is evident in the rise of homegrown violent extremist attacks utilizing both complex and rudimentary means. 

As a state, we witnessed and responded to these types of attacks during the September 2016 New Jersey and New York bombings. The terrorist threats we face are only limited by the creativity and sense of purpose of those planning and executing them. 

In addition, law enforcement officers and military personnel have become a preferred target of those seeking to do harm. 

In order to be able to continue to detect, deter, prevent and respond to terroristic criminal activities, our law enforcement must continue to develop its capabilities. Collaboration and information sharing are most vital pieces that need to be nurtured in order to sustain strong relations. Stakeholders need to be able to train, equip, exercise personnel as well as provide routine education to develop decision-making abilities. 

Our first preventers should be prepared with the institutional knowledge of the threats and practices in order to mitigate radicalization and mobilization phases before our men and women in blue encounter them as first responders. 

Counter terrorism and target hardening operations need effective means of communications and plans that are interoperable and standardized. 

The state of New Jersey lacks digital technologies and personnel to support planning and operational phases in providing consistent real-time interagency communications during a multi-agency phase to an incident or an event. We collectively must continue to foster sustainable relationships, enable efficient information exchange and implement an integration and analysis function to informed planning and operational decisions in order to protect our citizens and critical infrastructure in a unified approach. Thank you. 

KATKO: I thank you Mr. Lemanowicz for your testimony. We appreciate you taking the time to be here today and definitely thought-provoking like the others who have testified before you. Ms. Watson Coleman? 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you very much for your testimony and thank you for emphasizing the need to be collaborative and to interact because Mr. Katko and I are constantly talking about whether or not information is being shared in real time and if best practices and things of that nature are being (inaudible)... 

Our next witness is Mr. Trucillo -- Mr. Christopher Trucillo. Mr. Trucillo was sworn in as the Chief of New Jersey Transit Police Department on July 26, 2010. He began his law enforcement career in 1978 as a municipal police officer in Harrison, New Jersey. In 1986, he joined the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department where he rose through the ranks to become the Chief of the department. 

Chief Trucillo was instrumental during the aftermath of September 11, 2001 transforming the Transit Police into an anti-terror force. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Trucillo for his testimony and thank you for being here today, sir. 

TRUCILLO: Thank you, Congresswoman. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee. I welcome this opportunity to appear before you today and discuss the challenges of securing passengers utilizing surface transportation in New Jersey, New York and this region. 

As the congresswoman mentioned, before joining the Transit Police Department, I served as the Chief of the Department for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and while there, I was the commanding officer of the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan and Newark International Airport and as the Chief of that department, I was responsible for the busiest aviation system in our nation, as well as the train system where at that time, we moved 240,000 people a day between New York and New Jersey. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you again for inviting me. We appreciate the important role this Committee has in matters related to transportation security and I, and the agency look forward to working with you. 

Just a little background on New Jersey Transit, We're the third largest transit agency in the nation. We're also the nation's largest statewide transportation system. We encompass over 5,000 square miles. We provide almost a million trips a day. We have 247 bus routes, 12 commuter lines, three light rail systems in our paratransit system. We have a 166 heavy rail stations, 62 light rail stations in this state and over 19,000 bus stops. 

Mr. Chairman, the transportation services provided by New Jersey Transit are vital to the economic well-being of our state and the region. We provide an essential service to the nearly 10 percent of all New Jersey commuters who use and depend on New Jersey Transit. It's important to note that these services reduce traffic congestion by providing commuters alternatives to our crowded highways and transits and crossings. 

Mr. Chairman, as you know, public transit agencies have unique security challenges due to the large numbers of people we serve in publicly accessible facilities traveling on predictable schedules. Over and over we have seen carnage inflicted by radicalized extremists on innocent people using publicly accessible spaces. Just recently on a public bike path in nearby Manhattan and unfortunately, mass transit systems worldwide continue to be a preferred target of terrorists. 

Our most important priority is keeping our customers safe as we continue to provide essential transportation services. Safety and security are obviously the top priority for everyone at New Jersey Transit and within the Transit Police Department. Counterterrorism is this police department's number one priority and we take that mission very seriously. 

The New Jersey Transit utilizes a risk-based approach to our security efforts in all hazards and threats. The Police Department's Intelligence Section provides the agency with strategic level risk management tools in support of our counterterrorism efforts and coordinates intelligence collection, analysis and production efforts including reporting and monitoring of suspicious activity and individuals. 

They work cooperatively and collaboratively with the FBI offices in Newark, New York City and Philadelphia, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, TSA, New Jersey Office of Homeland Security, NYPD and the state police State Fusion Center. 

Mr. Chairman and Members, almost all of our over 11,000 employees at New Jersey Transit have received security awareness training from conductors, the bus operators to office staff. Our employees our force multipliers, extra eyes and ears for the police department. We also work in cooperation with the hundreds of businesses located near train stations to encourage them to report suspicious activity. We also continue to work closely with those first responder agencies at the municipal, county and state levels. To give you an example, several times a year, we take partner agencies to Texas A&M at a DHS Center of Excellence for Incident Command, so we can train together for an event, God forbid that may happen here at home. 

To date, we've trained over 600 New Jersey Transit employees from all business lines not just the police, as well as over 500 of our partner agencies, some of whom are at this table today and to assure that we're prepared and able to respond adequately to a terrorism incident, the Office of Emergency Management conducts five to seven exercises every year within the state with those partners. 

Our ability to respond quickly and capably has been enhanced further because this year, we opened an Emergency Operations Center, a state-of-the-art Operations Center which we've already used this past summer with the Amtrak work at Penn Station in New York. The EOC provides information and support incident management and coordinates all response and recovery efforts when there is an incident. 

We, as my partners have mentioned also promote our customers to see something and say something. We have 800-lines, text us lines. We also have a new mobile app that people can buy tickets and use digital ticketing and on that app, it gives them an opportunity with one press of a button to report something into our police department. 

While we don't give out specific deployment information about how we deploy our police officers, we use -- as my partners have mentioned, many different tools that are seen and some not seen to protect our passengers. 

We have specialized police officers who are all fully certified in urban search and rescue. Their skillsets came to bear recently when we had the Hoboken train accident in Hoboken, New Jersey. 

We have explosive-detection K9s which are probably are our most important deterrents and we're also a test bed for TSA's Office of Requirements and Capabilities Analysis, formerly Science and Technology. 

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, every one of these efforts that I have spoken of requires resources. We simply could not carry out our mission without the help and support of Congress and the Department of Homeland Security. We believe that increased Federal investment in public transportation security, Congress and DHS is critical to that effort. 

New Jersey Transit has made great strides in transit security improvements in the recent years, but much more needs to be done, so we are very grateful for the interest and focus of this Committee and Subcommittee and very grateful to Representative Coleman for her efforts. They are not only most welcome, they are essential. 

We look forward to building on our cooperative working relationship with the Department of Homeland Security and Congress to further these needs. 

On behalf of New Jersey Transit and the New Jersey Transit Police Department, I again thank you and the Committee for allowing us to submit testimony on these critical issues. 

KATKO: Thank You Mr. Trucillo your testimony and I appreciate you being here as well. The normal protocol at this time thus far, the Chair of the Subcommittee to start with questioning but given the fact that Ms. Watson Coleman and myself work in such a fine and bipartisan manner and given the fact that it is her home turf, I want to give her the honor to go on first with questions. Ms. Watson Coleman? 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I thank each and every one of you for your testimony. 

I did read your testimony. I am very impressed with the kind of robust and comprehensive training that the people that work for you have, not only those on the front lines, but even some of those who are in support capacities. It just -- it does make us feel better that these issues are being addressed. 

I have a couple of general questions. One question, I don't know if you've had the opportunity to travel into other countries and to see what sort of security measures or technologies they employ in Europe and other places that would be very helpful to us here and very helpful to you that you don't have access to now. 

So I'm wondering if you could just quickly share with me some of those things that you've observed if you have and I'll start... 

CUNNINGHAM: Yes, I don't mind answering that question myself also. I traveled extensively with the FBI and what I noticed in most of the European, as well as Asian is that there's a presence on the platforms, absolutely and in Europe, it's mostly an armed presence with K9s actively walking and patrolling the entire length, and it's not just one. It's multiple and they have teams. That's the biggest that I've seen. 

The other thing is that they also have a propensity for cameras and I just know that -- and assuming this disposition that I have now, the cost of maintaining them is also a consideration and that's what sort of happens if you employ cameras from 2003 and 2005, they're pretty much outdated and now, you know, are needed to be revamped and so it's a big cost, but that's what I've noticed internationally is presence on the platforms and it's manpower. It's putting them out there and meanwhile, doing the other things that you have to do. 

NESTEL: I think that if you go anywhere outside of the country, you see a very robust camera network. We would love to have that. That doesn't exist for most transit agencies, I think in in the United States right now. They also have things that you don't see and those are chemical detection systems on trains and on platforms and also scanners, weapons scanners. All of that technology is being used elsewhere and is not as prevalent here in the United States. LEMANOWICZ: In many ways our operations are there to support the different sectors so in terms of us looking at the transportation sector, we come in as a deployment model, as a strike team to support the on-site, but the cameras would be a big piece and when we are there, we are bolstering that a threat of having resources on scene. I mean, we're not -- again, they're at there -- there are minimums that they're able to sustain. 

I would also recommend that digital technology is continually on the rise and it's not just, if we could put members out on the platform, so we're in terminals and things like that, but it's the accountability of our members. 

So from a management side, so we have a critical incident, a catastrophic incident that you know real-time where your people are and because of the radio traffic just gets overwhelmed, so we are in many ways, we've come -- we've improved since 9/11 with our communications, but in many ways we haven't made it to that point and there are some simple systems out there that other countries are using and it's not being Big Brother whereas like where's my personnel, it's more of when something happens, how do we quickly get them and communicate to them what is going on and then you have a real time two-way feedback of that situation. 

TRUCILLO: I've had the opportunity while at the Port Authority to travel to London and to Israel to see how they handle security. In London, the big difference that I noticed was the camera system that my colleagues mentioned, very robust and very coordinated. All the disparate systems, no matter where they are tied in so it literally is one system and operationally, it was very good. 

In Israel, it's the mindset that everyone understands how important security is to their nation and that I took back with me and that's why I mentioned earlier, counterterrorism is the number one mission of every New Jersey Transit police officer. They have to know that, not because I say it but because they're trained for that and our training reflects that. 

The other thing that I noticed in Israel again was the randomness of the way they do their patrols. The difficult thing we deal with in mass transit is not having the people to necessarily cover everywhere we have risk and none of us can afford nor do I believe as a nation, we can afford to put a police officer everywhere, but we should be able to in a random way have someone who's preoperatively looking at a target, have a risk that a police officer is going to be there that they should not be able to observe a target for a week and never have seen a police officer at that location because that's a very bad message to send to an adversary. That this is a very easy target. 

So I believe that was what I picked up from being overseas. 

WATSON COLEMAN: So it seems to me that both additional personnel, so that there's a robust presence, obviously K9s that can detect explosives and gases and things of that nature and so my question is, have you had a chance to review the sort of proposed budget and have any idea how it would impact what you think you need as opposed to what you would be getting in any of those categories? 

For instance the budget proposes just reducing VIPR teams to eight teams. It doesn't even propose necessarily the kind of support to the surface transportation facilities, just sort of the grants that would help you to hire people and I guess, the other things have gone from like $88 million and it's being proposed to $44 million. 

I am going to introduce a bill today then, and you know, I'm hoping that John -- Mr. Katko gets a chance to look at and finds areas in which he can support because both of us are very interested in ensuring and as well as Mr. Fitzpatrick. It's very important to us that these surface transportation facilities and infrastructures and operations are given the kind of attention that TSA doesn't seem to be giving them now and that the resources don't seem to be there. 

TRUCILLO: If I may, I can mention it very directly in two specific areas in terms of the decrease in the Transit Security Grant Program. You heard me talk about the training we do and this training is critical. The drills, the exercises, you know, there's a saying that my colleagues and I all know. You don't want there to be a major event. All show up and that's the first time you're seeing folks. 

You need to have these relationships, this collaborative working knowledge before you ever get to that scene and through the drills and exercises that we're able to do and the only way we do it is through the Transit Security Grant Program where we train together, we travel to a specialized facility to train together. These relationships are incredible. 

I'm going go back just for a quick moment to that Hoboken train accident. We had over 350 people on this train when it crashed into Hoboken. They were all extricated from that train, evacuated from that train in a half hour. There were a 107 injured in that incident. They were all triaged and transported to hospitals in under one hour. 

In emergency management, that's a remarkable job and that happened because everybody who responded to that scene has worked together before, has drilled together before. The second item that would be critical and we would not be able to do what we do now if we lost the grant program, my colleague from SEPTA mentioned it earlier, special events. For instance, in Transit, we have a train station within a 100 yards of a football stadium. We have 16 football games every Sunday. NFL and AFL, every Sunday there is a game and we have trains that go out to that stadium that we have to protect. We have concerts, festivals, fairs, they're all targets of opportunity. They're all where large crowds gather. 

Without the ability to put officers as a deterrent at these events, we're vulnerable. And those are two specific ways that a decrease in that grant program is going to have a tangible impact. 

WATSON COLEMAN: (Inaudible). I guess one question I have is to what extent do you rely upon the local police to participate in whatever needs you have in securing your sort of surface facilities at events, at special events or just, you know, under normal circumstances because that particular program is slated for elimination and we think that that's particularly problematic. 

NESTEL: I think that police departments in local jurisdictions are already stretched thin and have way too many responsibilities, which is why we ended up being formed in the first place. They can't assume the responsibilities that we are responsible for. The gaps that exist because of the grant funding decrease from nearly $200 million to $80 million is very painful for the Transit agencies. We have a significant K9 explosive-detection function and Congresswoman, if a bag is left unattended, if we don't get to that bag quickly, we have to stop the system. 

This happens every day. So we have multiple K9 units throughout our system that can respond within minutes to clear that bag to make sure that it's not a threat. For us at SEPTA, we have a Special Operations Response Team which is basically a SWAT and Rescue team that was funded through the Transit Grant Program. We're not getting those funds now. 

So it has a dramatic effect on those specialized functions that are so important to Transit right now. 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you. I'll yield back for the moment. I hope we have another one. 

KATKO: We will be happy to do some, Ms. Watson Coleman. Thank you very much and thank you, all of you gentlemen, for being here today. As I said earlier, as I was sitting here, I was thinking you have and 12.5 times the number of passengers that travel on the airlines every year and not only do you have the safety and prevention aspect, you also have a law enforcement aspect that don't have to deal with the airports very much. That is the unruly passenger, unruly crowds at Eagles games, things like that. 

So you're really wearing more than one hat and I really commend you for the job you're doing. It's quite remarkable given the target of opportunity that you daily -- that data presents itself in your realm that you've kept people safe as you have and our nation really owes you all a debt of gratitude and all your colleagues, so I want to thank you for all you do to keep people safe every day. 

One thing I've learned when I was a Federal organized crime prosecutor is that task forces are critical. Task forces at Federal, state and local law enforcement are the force multiplier you need to really draw on the expertise and the manpower issues to get the job done. So it's really heartening to hear how well that that concept works and it seems like a necessity is the mother of invention and everyone knows you want to keep people safe, so it's a lot easier to get them to work together under those circumstances, but that's really very important. 

One thing that I was concerned within my days as a prosecutor was the interoperability issue with radios as well. We had a lot of those concerns and I heard that from I think it was you, Mr. Nestel, or it was yes, I'd like to hear a little more about that and how we can help fix that because to me that's an -- that should be an easy fix and it's frustrating at times to me that when, you know not on law enforcement agencies were on the same frequencies and it's just maddening that we can't fix something as easy as that, so I'd like to hear something we could do to fix that first of all. 

NESTEL: Congressman, the technology is there. It's expensive and once it's expensive, it's getting over the hurdles of jurisdictional acceptance. When a different jurisdiction is speaking on your radio band, it's the different languages. It's the control of those conversations. It's access to information, you know, there's always a concern when your radio communication is being monitored by others that you don't know. 

So there are obvious hurdles that have to be crossed before we can have that ability to communicate. During an emergency, we have interoperability where we could plug in from SEPTA headquarters. We can plug in all the local jurisdictions onto one band to handle that emergency. It exists. We have it. 

This is the normal day-to-day communication, you know, a suspicious person in a track area between Warminster and Hatboro in in Bucks County would warrant communication with that jurisdiction and we would have the ability to just switch a radio band and the officers responding would then be on the band of that jurisdiction who is also responding. That's a huge benefit for us, huge benefit. 

So it would be cost and it would be logistics of acceptance. 

KATKO: Okay, thank you. Anybody else want to add to that. No? 

LEMANOWICZ: It's called Statecom (ph), which most of all agencies across the state as well as all local and municipal county resources could all jump on. We're in a process right now in trying to identify certain channels right now, so they get a target hardening channel where it's made up with different agencies and they're going around with VIPR teams and other groups in overt and covert capacities in a prevention and protection based model, not response, but prevention and protection. 

So that's the collaboration part, but how do we talk is through these group channels. It's not taking ownership of another agency's primary, it's just giving an opportunity that they can quickly click over to this channel and speak. 

So in terms of a special event, the Papal two years ago we operated off of Statecom (ph), Super Bowl (ph). All of these different special events. Now, we think of a significant incident, you think about the Seaside and the bombings in New York, we were able to now move to a Statecom (ph) channel to now collaborate all resources all to that. It's now it's a point of education and training and exercising and you get everybody to get help when using it, but as you said, it does exist. 

NESTEL: Actually one... 

KATKO: Sure. 

NESTEL: One follow-up, manufacturer -- there are several manufacturers of radios and what we've seen is that when we try to integrate those systems using different manufacturers, there's often another hurdle that comes up that there is a concern that there will be communication interference or not a smooth transition using different manufacturers. 

I'm not a communications expert. I don't know if that's a realistic concern, but I know that it is an organizational concern. 

KATKO: Okay, okay. Now, I'm going to just briefly touch on K9s. It's amazing in this era of modern technology, which one, I'd get to in a moment that people often get back to saying K9s are one of the most effective methods and tools we have in our arsenal, and it's also amazing to me how little they're really utilized. 

So why don't any of you guys share us some opinions as to why that is that K9s are more readily used? 

TRUCILLO: I won't speak to why they're not used, I will reaffirm what you mentioned, Congressman about how important they are. I believe that it's probably the single best deterrent that we could have. 

KATKO: We hear that all the time in the air program as well. 

TRUCILLO: You asked me what we can do to protect with -- a singular thing we could do to protect mass transit, I'd say put a K9 and a trained partner in every train station and I don't think you'd have a better deterrent than that. 

KATKO: Okay. Anybody else? 

CUNNINGHAM: We've used the K9 dogs when we shut down the bridge or we have a race that is being run like a block run or one of the other ones. We searched 7,000 bike riders' bags with those dogs and we're able to get them down to the shore before they arrived. 

I mean 7,000 bags; so irreplaceable. 

KATKO: Okay. 

NESTEL: And I think that it cuts the needs for staffing because ordinarily, you would have a two-officer team. That dog serves as a partner. It also serves multiple functions, it's not just explosive detection, it's tracking of escaping persons, it is community relations. The dog has multiple functions and a dog is much cheaper than electronic technology but does the same thing. 

KATKO: Okay. 

LEMANOWICZ: We have Captain Scott Poulton (ph) in the audience. He was pretty much one of the supervisors in building this task force, this Detection Renders Safe Task Force for the K9s, it's a statewide capability in recalling in a preventative or in a response function for a special event or incident, but as everybody here at the table has said, they are a phenomenal resource and many times, they might just be seen that they're scent tracking, you know trying to find a suspicious item, but many times, if we start to think about the tactics that they are using overseas now, it's not just an article of an item, it's an individual, it's a vehicle and what we're finding out is we have to adapt and that's going to require funding and training and exercise to now adapt to our threat and that's a moving vehicle, that's a moving individual. 

We don't have air, you know scent trackers that are moving with an individual. They come on to an article or an item and they scent it, right, but in terms of a moving subject, our K9s across the state at a local county and state, Federal level they are -- they still need that extra training so that is a huge piece for our future in combating any type of terrorist. 

KATKO: Yes, sir? 

CUNNINGHAM: Three words, funding, training, exercising -- essential. 

KATKO: But our about fourth word is savings made in this other sense being compared to like technology that you're going to try that may not work. Now, let's get to the technology a little bit. 

I'm constantly frustrated. I think I might share the sentiment of my colleagues when I note that Homeland Security is not the best at procurement and it's not the best at getting technology to the front lines and I'll give you an example. 

We're in an airport in Amsterdam where they have American-made technology 3D scanners that are being implemented now. Now, they're on the front line. They are working now. They're using them now and the Homeland Security agency wants to study them and until 2019 and hopefully, get them online by 2019. 

In the meanwhile, the technology is probably going to advance because the bad guys are always advance because the bad guys are always advancing and we know that what it takes to bring down an airplane is getting this smaller and smaller device, so with that being said, is there any one thing that we can get Homeland Security to do, to get -- help you get the technologies at the frontlines quicker other than money? Is there something in the process that's flawed that needs to be addressed or adjusted that we're missing? Because we're constantly on them, but it just seems to me that they can't get that process going in a timely manner. 

I mean, Ms. Watson Coleman and I were at a refugee camp on the border with Syria and each refugee got $28.00 a month and they never got the $28.00 a month, but they had a $28.00 voucher and they would go into it like this collective grocery store; 85,000 people on the Syrian border in the middle of the desert, in the middle of nowhere, they used American IRIScan technology to detect who was using the money and how much is left in their account and we don't even use that at airports today. 

So with that being said and anyone want to share any thoughts on that? CUNNINGHAM: One thing, we have 732 cameras on the PATCO line or on the bridges. Integration, they're not integrated. What's the sense of having those cameras who can monitor that many? The ability, the analytics, the capability is there, but the integrative factor of intrusion detection and alarm systems and the cameras themselves is essential and so that's something that I'm looking forward to trying to hoping the grant program and that's why I brought Mister... 

KATKO: The grant man... 

CUNNINGHAM: Mr. Shanahan along with me to just force this situation that funding is essential and integration is essential and I know that the timing is now. This is a key thing for all of us, not on a regional level. 

NESTEL: Congressman, I don't think anybody at this table is going to say the technology isn't one of the biggest pieces for securing mass transit. It truly is. I don't know where Homeland Security is testing it, but I'll tell you that I'll push my peers all the way and volunteer that it be on SEPTA. 

We all need this this technology. It's expensive. None of us can afford it. We look forward to the time where the tested opportunity becomes a reality, but it just doesn't seem to happen for us. 

You know, each one of these agencies spends its own dollars to move forward with technology now rather than wait until you know that five, that ten years later, when it's going to be at the point where we really need it because in five or ten years, it's going to change. 

KATKO: Right, and TSA does the innovation ways (ph) at airports, but I don't know if they do much in the way of innovation with respect to surface transportation that perhaps something to get them to go with, but the bottom line is and the ideas are there and it takes so long to get them implemented because of the internal processes that's very frustrating for us, so... 

TRUCILLO: Mr. Chairman, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, at New Jersey Transit, we volunteered to be a test bed for science and technology, the division of -- within TSA and we've been working hard with them testing things like chem-bio detection, undercarriage screening. 

For instance when we had to safe guard rail cars for the Super Bowl, it was bomb detection. We can get in the car and we could visually see the exterior of the car, but we were worried about the undercarriage. So they developed an undercarriage screening that at speed could read the underside of the rail car to give us a level of comfort before we sent that car within the secured perimeter to the State Police. 

So they are making some strides, but it's frustrating because those strides are coming very, very slow. I'm not a science guy, but I believe technology has got to be the answer, but unfortunately, that technology is apparently not here yet. KATKO: The problem is a lot of times, it is here, it's just not getting implemented in a timely manner, so do you have anything to offer? 

CUNNINGHAM: In making the transition in my career from urban search and rescue to special operations and as a former special operations operator and now as an Operations Officer and coordinator, the main thing is to go by the kiss mouth method, right and keep it simple and for me, keep it simple stupid. 

So every of our person -- all of our personnel are being tasked probably more than they can. They're being do more with less and for us to try to keep up with technology and deploy it the way we would envision it where we see in the movies and the set, it's not practical, but in terms of them going back to communications, so we're not talking prevention base, we're talking about a response incident. 

They are on the rails. They are in some type of terminals and they are now the immediate actors, you know, counter-assault personnel. They're trying to deal with a threat. How do you bring in the resources that are needed? And we have actors now that are calling in, you know, SWAT incidents, SWAT-ting incidents to see how we respond to make, you know -- to now try to -- how can we counter their capabilities? 

So it's very important for us to look at it in terms of making it very clear across all channels of the communication aspects of radio, but how can we use digital technology to make it very simple in terms of what is happening right now and then when you have additional resources coming in, how can you provide a GIS layout what the area of operation is to make it very simplified to immediate point of contact. 

Very simple things and from there, these men and women are trained in their tactics and they can handle it. 

KATKO: Thank you very much and I went well over my time, so I won't ask any more questions in the second round, but Mr. Fitzpatrick, the floor is yours, sir. 

FITZPATRICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and welcome to our region and to the Ranking Member, thanks for hosting us in your district and thank you all of you for being here. Number one, thank you for what you do. I know it's not easy. It's a very, very significant responsibility under difficult circumstances, so I want to thank you for that and I also thank you for testifying today because the recommendations that you share with us are very, very important. They become part of the Congressional record for one and second, we really do take these recommendations back to our Committee, back to the floor of the House and they do in some form or fashion influence the final product which is relevant to keeping everybody safe here in this country. 

I want to touch on two issues; number one is interagency cooperation. I formerly was Mr. Cunningham's colleague in the Bureau and I know he can attest to the importance of task forces and the role that they play and it's not just state to state, Federal to Federal, but it's Federal to state. 

I can tell you that there is a Safe Streets Task Force's, there's Bank Robbery Task Force. JTTFs, the synergy that was developed, not only the camaraderie and the relationships, but everybody brought something unique to the table. Every single agency on different levels had something unique to offer to those investigations and when we talk about force multipliers, I think that all kind of plays into that. 

Technology is important. K9s are important. We talked about the force multiplier aspects. I think task forces are really important, which gets to my question. For task forces to work, the relationships have to be good and we all know and this isn't unique to law enforcement, it exists in all sorts of organizations, but oftentimes, there can be competitive jurisdictional battles, sometimes battles over funding that can hold back the success of task forces. 

So my first question is, what can you share about what's working and what's not working in the respective areas that you work with the task forces on both the state and Federal level and the second is when it comes to the budget oftentimes, it's an issue of prioritization and a lot of times those edicts come from the top of the executive branch and they may or may not be consistent with what you all are seeing based on you having your ears and eyes to the ground knowing the threats on a more intricate basis than maybe the people at the top that are making those decisions and issuing the priorities that impact your funding and where it's going and what you can and can't do in keeping us safe. 

So if we could just address those two issues, the task force and sort of the relationship aspect to it and second on is there any disconnect between the priorities that sometimes are issued on high that affects the priority of where your funding streams are going and whether that there's a disconnect between what you really need? 

CUNNINGHAM: Well, first the task force for us kind of thing is our working group for Thomas Stowe (ph) and myself, and the DART team. We also have New Jersey Transit and part of -- just part of our group, the regional group that works tremendously well. 

I will say one thing though I found out that we had funding for two analysts who were working at the DVIC and providing Transit -- transportation surface work as well, you know the processes and intelligence threats they were working on. That grant is running out and so we're not going to be able to fund it anymore, so those two analysts that we're working and doing some things for us are now not going to be there. 

We spoke to the people at the DVIC and the Commanding Officer there and they're going to try to pick up that, but again that is a gap that causes ... 

They're working together and cooperatively is fantastic as far as I see and the openness is there. It's what do we need and we get back to the same thing. It's funding, it's direct -- you know, directed control funding, it's money to put the systems in, it's to integrate it. It's to make us better you know jointly and that seems to be what is lacking, mainly funding. 

The camaraderie, the ability or the willingness is there. It's no longer a divided field, if you will. If I need something from the New Jersey State Police, I feel very comfortable that I can go there and get whatever it is that we need intelligence-wise or whatever, so I'll open it to Thomas. 

NESTEL: Yes, I'm piggyback on exactly what you said, Congressman and that was the value of task forces beyond just the investigative function that they're serving is the development of the people that you assign to that task force is huge. 

The personal relationships that they develop in that that Federal organization, state organization, local organization, the added resource. I know that I can call the detective on the Joint Terrorism Task Force or the FBI Violent Crime Task Force or the DEA task force. I can call any of those detectives and immediately get resources from those organizations because of our participation and because of the relationships that are built. 

When it comes to the Transit group -- this Transit group, we have a phenomenal relationship and you know, it might be a case in other places where there is sparring over grant funds that doesn't occur with our group. There's great collaborative effort when it comes to the grant funding and the group efforts, but Charlie hit the nail on the head. Somewhere above our group, one of the most important parts of preventing tourism is the intelligence element, you know, if we're relying on that cop on a on a platform to stop it, then a lot of things have failed to get to that point, we no longer will have an analyst after January. 

And that was funded by grant funding that we all agreed on and it's gone. 

LEMANOWICZ: The concept of the task force is what gets the job done. I've seen it with the USAR task forces, I was involved with that for seven years when a local or county entity needed a good resource, they called the USAR task force in the state, this was task force one, now in terms of operations, we have a bomb task force. We have a K9 task force. If you want the job done, you call the task force. 

Now, we're in the process for the last year of building, it's not called a task force yet, but we are essentially a planning task force that is built up at the ROC where you have all these entities and all of these different agencies and officers coming together, sharing intelligence and trying to develop a strategy to combat terrorism; in itself it's a planning task force. 

And then that is what now gets put into the operational theater how can we through operations prevent and detect and deter. 

TRUCILLO: I've been given terms of the task forces, I agree with Charles in the south, it's very good and you've heard the chiefs talk about it. In the north, the regional chief's task force with trains and parties, NYPD Transit, New Jersey Transit, Amtrak, Port Authority the MTA -- yes, I've been in this business for a long time and I remember. I've been in the Transit in the business for a long time and I remember when TSA was the stood up and those were difficult times. 

That was a head butting time like I would tell you, thankfully, we are beyond that. I believe, we are working together and cooperatively. That's the good news. 

To your first point, Congressman, about the prioritization. I am very worried about that because Transit agencies are not well healed. We all know the economic troubles that all Transit agencies had and when you try and move people, your top priority every day, things will fall by the wayside. 

But my colleagues and I, our job is safety and security of those people who are using the busses and the rails, and we can't necessarily look at the budget and say, "Well, we're not going to be put somebody there because we can't afford to put somebody there." If the situation and the intelligence dictates that somebody needs to be there, they need to be there. 

The grant funding gives us that ability to put that officer there. Without that grant funding, we're putting people in harm's way, I believe. 

FITZPATRICK: So beyond that, and I think everybody, not just in this panel and everybody certainly in the room probably agrees that funding is the priority. Beyond that, what is it and this is a tough question, I acknowledge that, but beyond the funding constraints, what is it that is frustrating when you're out doing your job every day? What is it that's holding you back? What is what are the causes of frustration beyond the resource issue? 

TRUCILLO: I think from my perspective and you touched on it earlier, we all deal with other issues. In transportation facilities, we see a very high level of homelessness, drug addiction, mental issues and we cannot say that our primary mission is counterterrorism; therefore, we're not going to deal with these issues. 

We have to deal with those issues and when we're dealing with those issues as best we can, we're being taken away from that primary mission. So that's frustrating that in certain cases there aren't the services available to treat those with addiction, with homelessness issues, the mental health issue is probably the biggest problematic issue. people that come back day after day after day that you can't seem to move away from the Transit facility to get them the help that they need, so that's my biggest frustration. 

NESTEL: I'm jumping right on that homelessness, poverty and the opioid crisis are what takes up all of our time during the course of the day and redirects our efforts from crime control and terrorism prevention. Those social ills are absolutely the thing that are most frustrating for us. 

CUNNINGHAM: Just to change the tone of that, for us for Transit traveling against jurisdiction, it's the ability to smoothly transition from location to location. Our officers covering Pennsylvania and New Jersey and I think that's a factor that weighs on the side kind of thing. We don't have necessarily the kind of issues that they were mentioning there, but one of the things that needs to get out is that and I think Mr. Trucillo said it about what happens in Israel. 

Everybody feels like you're part of the solution. That they're all contributing, no matter they're a store clerk or you know, working as a police officer or a military person, they all have the same goal. We try to put that out through our PSA (ph) kind of information, but if it came from like a national kind of method as well, like to foster that attitude that because when I ride the train too even though we wanted them to look up and speak up and we want them to see something say something, nobody's looking up. 

They're looking at their phones and the message has to be somehow, we get it to them through that system or we've got to get them to communicate too. 

FITZPATRICK: I want to thank you all for sharing that and I think it's a reminder to us up here that issues we deal with outside of the Homeland Security Committee are very relevant to what we deal with in the Homeland Security Committee. Thank you. 

KATKO: Thank you very much and I happen to Chair the Mental Health Task Force and I think you're probably -- I'm not sure you even know this. What's the number two cause of deaths for people 24 and younger? Suicide. 

The number ten cause of deaths for all Americans is suicide and for every suicide attempt, there is about 22 -- every suicide is about 22 attempts and if you think about the cost to society and how little is being spent on mental health in this country in that crisis that it is. It far outstrips the opioid crisis and look at that sort of our country, so just we should all keep that in mind going forward, but Ms. Watson Coleman is going to have the last word here, so Ms. Watson Coleman, you're up. 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you very much and thank you Mr. Fitzpatrick for coming here and Mr. Katko for holding this hearing. This has been very illuminating and I thank you very much, you've been very helpful. 

VIPR teams is something that I don't know because I'm a dog lover or what, but I recognize that they're vitally important and in the piece of legislation that we are proposing, that I am proposing today, it does include a significant increase in those teams somewhere upwards of 200 dogs in that situation. 

Thank you for raising those sort of cultural issues that also impact your ability to do your job and it made me think about the budget and what could possibly happen as a result of some of the proposals that are taking place including this tax reform proposal and what it might do to those people who are homeless, you know, who are addicted and who are impoverished. It certainly makes their life a little bit more difficult. The last thing is that, I just wanted to ask you this question what do you have to just say about sharing best practices, knowing whatever information exists that can help prepare us for things like what happened with that truck that ran into those bicyclists. It concerns me because it doesn't take a lot of education. It takes no education. Obviously, it takes no core value. It doesn't take any training, it just means that you're hell-bent on killing somebody. 

So these sort of automobile related terrorist attacks, weaponizing our cars and our trucks, if you have anything that you would like to share that we might be thinking about as we move forward and what we need to do and that is my only last question other than to thank you. Anybody? 

TRUCILLO: I'll take a stab at that and it deals with my trip to Israel and this was post 9/11 in 2005 where everyone -- everyone was aware of the possibility of terrorism and my host said to me, "Chris, I can't believe that in America, you're not doing more of this." And I said to him," Niki (ph), as horrible as 9/11 was, it would take many more 9/11's for Americans to give up their freedoms." And I think we're torn as a nation between giving up our freedoms and dealing with this vector of terrorism that keeps tapping on our shores. 

And I think, we just, as a people need to be more aware. It sounds simplistic, but we need to be very aware every day at all times of our surroundings and that sounds very simplistic, but unfortunately, I believe that that's where we are in society today. 

WATSON COLEMAN: Kind of connected to that national message you were talking about, say something, see something, say something, yes. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Katko, I yield back. Oh sorry, sorry. 

LEMANOWICZ: I'm a fan of education and you have your front line men and women. And many times, in terms of what they gather through their own experience; however, there is a wave of changing that mindset from a first responder to a first preventer and that is through education, not just the experience. 

We can always chase TTP's -- the terrorists, right, tactics techniques and procedures and sometimes, you know you have a couple hits of the same type of tactic and Rumiyah already published, you know, the ISIS magazine published and they're pretty much telling their people how to put it out and now you'll see it, you know being conducted, the same type of tactic in each country including here in the United States. 

It comes down to education. There's a program now, CTCs, the County Counterterrorism Coordinators, so it's trying to get down from a Federal down to a local level and educate them in terms of what are the best protective measures so when you talk about a train platform or you talk about a special event, no matter what the theater of operational area is, they know what the best means of, "Hey, how do I create a strong perimeter?" Or the reason why, because of these vehicles, because of these suicide bombers, because of what they could potentially bring and it's that. So that's something that again, it's developing, but it always needs support and that is providing education across all from Federal or down to local and using these counterterrorism coordinators as that mechanism to branch out (inaudible). 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you. 

CUNNINGHAM: Just one point, I totally agree with what the lieutenant said and that terrorism is asymmetrical now. I mean, very asymmetrical with the advent of domestic terrorism and the homegrown kind of things, so I do believe that kind of -- that's it's a constant training because the methodologies and the methods that are being employed; now, we have to plan for hotel rooms and apartments and parking lots above us to be looking out for whether it's going to be an active shooter if you will, from above. 

So everything has to be changed and we have to adjust on the fly and all the officers have to adjust and learn from everything else, and it's important, the sharing of information, best practices and things like that is essential to our business in the transit and transportation industry. 

WATSON COLEMAN: Thank you very much. 

KATKO: All right. Thank you all very much. I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony today. It was excellent. It was very thought-provoking and it gives us a lot of things to talk about and go back and take a look at what we can do to further help you in your mission to keep all of us safe, so we want to thank you for that. 

The members of the Committee may have some additional questions for the witnesses and we will ask you to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to Committee rules, the hearing record will be held open for ten days. 

Before I adjourn, I just want to thank once again my colleagues from the local area here, Mr. Fitzpatrick and Ms. Watson Coleman for putting this on and Ms. Watson Coleman in particular for your leadership on this one. It's a very important issue. We spend an awful lot of time looking at airports and air travel, but this is another huge area that we need to make sure we pay attention to, so thank you both very much and with that the Committee stands adjourned. 

END