[Scan-DC] Firefighter radios did not work in tunne l dur ing Metro smoke incident ·

[Luke Berndt]

Or possibly the new frequencies? The new P25 system has the talk groups in the 700mhz band. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:07 PM, FiveAlarm Photography <fivealarmphotography at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am not familiar with how exactly the repeaters work or programmed but
> maybe could the repeaters have not been "programmed" to operate on the new
> talkgroups. Maybe that is why they weren't working?
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Ed Tobias <edtobias at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, that's been reported by a number of news organizations. However, if
>> the tunnel repeaters weren't working, as has also been reported, there
>> would be a lack of comms to the command post, whether encrypted or not.
>> 
>> I spent 40 years in the DC news media and have been listening to public
>> safety radio for 50+ years. I firmly oppose encryption on routine public
>> safety channels. However, I have to wonder whether news reports that are
>> focusing on encrypted radios as a possible cause of the comms problems are
>> doing so because media members are unhappy about the encryption and they're
>> trying to make a case against it.
>> 
>> The question that should be asked is "did the repeaters fail and, if so,
>> why?"  Maybe encryption is a factor, maybe not.
>> 
>> Ed
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jan 14, 2015, at 3:34 PM, "Thomas J. Dalrymple" <
>>> tjdalrymple at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I heard this on WTOP around 2pm, but have not found it on their website
>> yet.
>>> 
>>> Encrypted radios were not working in the tunnels, and firefighters
>>> resorted to runners to deliver communications from the site to
>>> firefighters outside.
>>> 
>>> Tom D.
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Ed Tobias <edtobias at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>>> The problem, (at least one of them), seems to have been that the
>> in-tunnel repeaters were out of service. That would have made it difficult,
>> if not impossible, to communicate from tunnel to command post or along long
>> stretches of tunnel.
>>>> 
>>>> Montgomery used to send a Btl Chief to the Command Center at Metro Hq
>> to help coordinate incidents. Not sure if they still do or if DC does that.
>>>> 
>>>> The Rail70x units are, I believe, MCFD officers with specialized
>> training for Metro incidents.   Don't confuse them with NCR70x units, who
>> carry radio caches for use in major incidents involving multiple
>> jurisdictions.
>>>> 
>>>> Ed
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 13, 2015, at 10:29 PM, Jeff Krauss <jeff at krauss.ws> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> After viewing the Fox5 piece by Paul Wagner, I'm sure you're correct.
>>>>> He said that the units in the tunnel couldn't communicate with the
>> incident commander at street level.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Which means that the DCFD command structure was deficient.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If I recall, the Montgomery County FD procedure is to assign a
>> "Forward Incident Commander" (they don't use that term) at the
>> stationmaster's kiosk, whose job includes communications between units in
>> the tunnel and the command post upstairs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, when Montgomery County has a Metro incident, I hear units come
>> up on the air identifying themselves as "Rail 704" and similar callsigns.
>> Not clear whether they are County FD employees or WMATA employees.  At
>> least some of them seem to carry caches of radios to assist in radio
>> communications between the fire department and Metro dispatchers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 08:07 PM 1/13/2015, djoneses wrote:
>>>>>> I would think that this quote from the Fox5 story answers your
>> question:
>>>>>> "firefighters used line of sight communication in the tunnel."
>> Presumably
>>>>>> that means that simplex i.e. line of sight channels were used.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Scan-DC [mailto:scan-dc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>> Jeff
>>>>>> Krauss
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