[Scan-DC] UP Park Police incident
Kenneth Fowler
fxpd614 at gmail.com
Thu Dec 22 04:52:40 EST 2011
I was under the impression va beach help did ems runs also.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Jerry Hoyt
Sent: 12/21/2011 7:23 PM
To: michael rumberg; scan-dc at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Scan-DC] UP Park Police incident
Hey Michael,
I would agree, those who are fortunate enough to live in Fairfax
County should be thankful we have an airborne unit capable of both law
enforcement and advanced life support paramedical service. In Virginia
Beach, where I am originally from, they have a helicopter unit as
well, but their unit cannot do life saving medical runs, only law
enforcement assistance. There, they must depend on Sentara Norfolk
General's Nightingale Air Ambulance, which could be tied up on another
call.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: michael rumberg <m_c_rumberg at hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 00:16:10
To: <scan-dc at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Scan-DC] UP Park Police incident
I believe it was me that was talking about the higher level care
provided by helicopter paramedics.
I spent 12 hours doing a ride-along with the Fairfax County Police
helicopter unit. What they told/taught me: (at least in Fairfax)
- the helo medics are EMT-Ps (paramedics) and are trained, certified
and authorized for a scope of practice broader than the Fire Dept
EMT-Ps: they are allowed to administer drugs and perform invasive
procedures that FD paramedics cannot. This is invaluable during the
"golden hour" - during flight they are providing treatment not possible
even on an ALS ambulance
- the helo is much quicker:
- it can cross the entire county in less than 5 minutes;
- it can go from in the hangar to anywhere in the county in less
than 10 minutes. it can be at a landing site and ready to transport in
the time it takes the rescue squad to extricate and stabilize for
transport.
- if you were shot/stabbed in Hybla Valley would you
rather have the helo get you to Inova Fairfax in 5 minutes or take the
ambulance?
-Two calls for real life examples I witnessed:
1. we responded to a 3am head-on MVA in Reston. with a
patient there is only room for 3 so a police officer drove me to meet
the helo at Fairfax Hospital. It took us about 15 minutes to get to the
hospital - never driven so fast on the toll road and 495 as that! just
the same, by the time we got there the helo crew had not only delivered
the patient but had cleaned up, re-stocked, and was ready to RTB.
2. responded to a call around 6pm in Clifton for a guy who
fell off his roof while repairing it. Once the FD EMTs had him ready for
transport he was at the hospital in 7 minutes. Even at 3am there is no
way to get from Fairfax Station Rd and say, to Gallows Rd in 15
minutes.
I dont know where the "it takes a 30-45 minute delay to transport by
helo" comes from - but it sure didnt apply in the cases I saw.
Surely not all helo units are run this way, but at least in fairfax it
seems to be worth it.
> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 16:53:41 -0500
> From: andrew at ultraviolet.org
> To: dstaples at gwmail.gwu.edu
> CC: Scan-DC at mailman.qth.net; b_thom at juno.com
> Subject: Re: [Scan-DC] UP Park Police incident
>
> Correction -- GW is also level 1
> On Dec 21, 2011 4:45 PM, "David Staples" <dstaples at gwmail.gwu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Might have made some sense in this case (USPP officer). The incident
> > occurred at rush hour. The US Park Police helicopters are based in
> > Anacostia, a real quick flight from there to the Key Bridge, and those
> > helos are frequently in the air anyway over DC. I'd imagine an ambulance
> > ride from the Key Bridge to GW or Georgetown hospitals at rush hour is no
> > picnic traffic wise.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Clegg, Andrew W. <aclegg at nsf.gov> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I believe you are referring to the one that started when I
> > > questioned the wisdom of calling for a helicopter (on a Sunday morning)
> > > for the injured person in Arlington. I recall that someone tried to
> > > justify it by claiming that somehow the helicopters were equipped with
> > > personnel who were so much more skilled than regular EMTs that it would
> > > justify the additional 1/2 hour - 45 minute delay in getting the person
> > > to the hospital. I don't buy that argument, but I really can't explain
> > > the rationale for the helicopter myself, other than perhaps there's a
> > > lot of political pressure to justify the existence of these hugely
> > > expensive resources. I totally understand the rationale for using
> > > helicopters for injured people in rural and some suburban areas, but not
> > > here in the city, where you're a 5-15 minute ambulance ride from the
> > > hospital (except perhaps during rush hour).
> > >
> > > By the way, apparently the accident rate associated with medical
> > > helicopters is really high. A random Google search turned up this
> > > passage from a Popular Mechanics article:
> > >
> > > "As a result of flying ill-equipped into risky conditions, medical
> > > helicopters crash at twice the rate of other air taxis and are
> > > exponentially more dangerous than commercial airliners, according to a
> > > 2009 study by Ira Blumen, medical and program director of the University
> > > of Chicago Aeromedical Network."
> > > (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/safety/medical-heli
> > > copter-safety-crashes).
> > >
> > > Between the time wasted in getting people to a hospital, and the very
> > > high accident rate, I really don't see the wisdom of using medical
> > > helicopters in a city.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: scan-dc-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> > > [mailto:scan-dc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Blair Thompson
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:04 PM
> > > To: Scan-DC at mailman.qth.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Scan-DC] UP Park Police incident
> > >
> > > There was a lengthy discussion about three or four years ago at Scan-DC
> > > about the wisdom of waiting for a helicopter vs. just taking the patient
> > > to a hospital in an ambulance. I can't find the thread right now.
> > >
> > > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > > From: "Clegg, Andrew W." <aclegg at nsf.gov>
> > > To: "Brooks, Kurt" <knbrooks at wusa9.com>, <jeff at krauss.ws>,
> > > <scan-dc at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Scan-DC] UP Park Police incident
> > > Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:02:48 -0500
> > >
> > > They're transporting to Georgetown, by ground.
> > >
> > > Based on past incidents, I'm surprised they didn't call in a medical
> > > helicopter, taking 45 minutes to fly in, locate a landing zone, land,
> > > transport to helicopter, load, depart, and fly 1000 ft to Georgetown.
> > > Makes about as much sense as when they took 45 minutes to pick up a
> > > patient in Arlington to fly to Georgetown. Could have taken them there
> > > on a bicycle in half that time.
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________
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