[SADXA] VK0EK - HEARD - 1st PASS AM GREYLINE DATA for 4/6 AZ.

Jerry jdwothe at cox.net
Wed Apr 6 16:16:19 EDT 2016 

I am told  the VK guys showed up on 80 m this morning but way after SR 
and some folks on the West coast worked them.

On 4/6/2016 8:18 AM, W7EXG (Bill) wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> Thanks for the 80/160 Vk0EK Grreyline report of "no signals" this AM.
>
> MY VK0EK Greyline report this AM for 4/6 AZ is al follows:
>
> - Did NOT hear HEARD on Bands higher than 30m at any time after SUNRISE, as
> indicated by DX Spots and DXA.
> - Only Heard VK0EK on 40m, and 30m, and LP was best for both cases.
> - FIRST heard VK0EK on both bands about 20 min AFTER VK0EK Sunset.. not
> before. (This is good, as it still supports the "AFTER SUNSET" Greyline
> Hypothesis).
> - 40m sig faded to 0, about 7:30am AZ. Think VK0EK QRTed on 30m.
> - Total Greyline propagation time on 40m.. about 1 hour
> - Signals faded about 1hr. 20 min. after sunrise (Or after VK0EK Sunset)
> NOTE: Not sure why, but for AFTER our SUNSET last night, I heard VK0EK on
> 40m for 2 Hrs, 30 min. For this AM, I heard VK0EK for only about 1 hr 20
> min. after our SUNRISE (or after their SUNSET).  Seems a bit odd.
>
> Anyway.. that's the VK0EK Greyline Data for this AM.
>
> 73s,
>
> Bill W7EXG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SADXA [mailto:sadxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 6:15 AM
> To: Southern AZ DX Association E-Mail Reflector
> Subject: Re: [SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK - HEARD -
> 1st PASS PM GREYLINE DATA for 4/5 AZ.
>
> Bill:
>
> Nothing heard from Heard. The band just was not there. Was forced to
> chase the FT4 guys on 80 with success but that is all. Same story this
> morning at SR, no VK0 heard by anyone in the NA.  Maybe tonight. Nothing
> heard around here on 160 of the FT4 either.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 4/5/2016 11:25 PM, W7EXG (Bill) wrote:
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Propagation tonight was NOT like the night of April 1st, (4/2 UTC)
>>
>> Hope you HEARD something on 80/160 m.
>>
>> As of 9:30pm LOCAL tonight (9:30am LOCAL Heard time), here is what I
>> observed, for far-side SUNRISE Greyline propagation.
>>
>> I HEARD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM HEARD.. UNTIL ABOUT 6:44PM.. 1ST ON 40M.
>> LONG PATH. THIS WAS AT LOCAL SUNSET.
>>
>> 40M (Local Time)
>> 4:30-6:44 -- NOTHING
>> 7pm - weak but audible/workable (High noise level) Long Path
>> 7:30pm to 8:30pm - Strongest Signal occurred during this timeframe.
>> 9pm - VERY WEAK
>> 9:30pm NO SIGNAL
>>
>> 30M (Local Time)
>> 7:20pm -- Nothing heard until this time -  LP
>> 		Called CQ often.
>> 8pm -- Weak, but workable. Stronger than 40m signals at this time.
>> 9pm - Audible, but not workable
>> 9:30pm.. no signal
>>
>> 20m and UP
>> HEARD was ON, but HEARD nothing.
>>
>> SUMMRY
>> - NO GREYLINE SIGNALS WERE HEARD on the SUNSET SUNNY Side UNTIL SUNSET.
>> - Lower Band Signals appeared before the higher band signals. NOTE: THIS
>> MIGHT BE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT TRANSMITTING ON 30m. More Data Needed.
>> -- Both 40m and 30m signals peaked about 8pm, local time, or about 1.25
>> hours AFTER near-SUNSET/far-SUNRISE
>> - Signals could still be heard 2.25 Hours after SUNSET/SUNRISE, but faded
> to
>> ZERO soon after.
>> - 30m signal peak was stronger than the 40m signal, but both were near the
>> noise level this evening.
>>
>> CONCLUSIONS
>> -- For Far-Side SUNRISE Greyline Propagation (SUNSET LOCAL):
>> 	1. Greyline signals cannot be heard until near-SUNSET.
>> 	2. Signals FROM the far-SUNRISE Side could be heard 2.25 hours AFTER
>> Far-side Sunrise! I find this significant.
>> 	5. This means 40m AND 30m Signals were propagating over daylight
>> ionized layer regions, until they entered into the Greyline.
>> 	6. Since Earth travels approximately 1000 mph at the Equator, it is
>> likely the daylight propagation region, after 2.25 hours was about 1000 or
>> more miles at HEARD. (Distance lower due to latitude - can calculate
> later).
>> 	7. This suggests the D layer was building slowly, since perhaps the
>> F/F2 layers were still active on 30m AND 40m over the daylight distance.
>> 	8. Lower Band propagation falters before higher band propagation,
>> possibly due to the building of the D layer on SUNRISE daylight side.
>>
>> IT IS INTERESTING THERE IS DAYLIGHT PROPAGATION OVER SIGNFICANT DISTANCES,
>> INTO/FROM THE GREYLINE ON THE SUNRISE SIDE, BUT NO DAYLIGHT PROPAGATION
>> INTO/FROM THE GREYLINE ON THE SUNSET SIDE.
>>
>> This also suggests it might be possible to work HEARD well past Tucson's
>> SUNRISE.. on 30m and 40m. HEARD sunset is 5:40pm local, or 5:40am out
> time.
>> Thus it is UNLIKELY we would EVER hear HEARD TOMORROW AM, until
>> after 5:40am, based on what we learned tonight. Greyline MUST be past
> their
>> SUNSET.
>>
>> Right now, HEARD is 1/2 hour into dark at our sunrise. So we are good to
> go,
>> after sunrise. Might take some data tomorrow am, for verification.
>>
>> MORE DATA NEEDS TO BE TAKEN, BEFORE MORE CONVINCING CONCLUSIONS CAN BE
>> DRAWN.
>>
>> There was a significant difference in the propagation this evening 4/5 vs
>> that of 4/1. Only the SPOTS appear significantly different in the solar
>> indices. It could be related to the recent aurora in Antarctica. 	
>>
>>     Date   SFI   Spots  K
>>     4/5    83    39     2
>>     4/1    82    11     3
>>
>> I WILL BE TAKING MORE OF THIS TYPE of DATA.. AM/PM --  4 DAYS LEFT!!
>>
>> 73s, Bill W7EXG
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SADXA [mailto:sadxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 3:35 PM
>> To: Southern AZ DX Association E-Mail Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK (Heard)
> /
>> AZ Propagation - GREYLINE DATA TAKING - Any Takers
>>
>> Bill:
>>
>> As of late with the VK0 hearing them on either 80 or 160 is the
>> challenge let alone get a feel for the variation of strength of the
>> signal. I of course have very little good directionality with my
>> antennas although they do have some. I intend to listen tonight to see
>> if I can hear them on either of those bands and if so will make a note
>> of what time that happens. Mornings are better here because of a lot
>> less noise than evenings. I have been listening in the mornings
>> generally starting about 5:00 local time. So far not only have I not
>> heard them, but no one else has either although they have been on as
>> reported by some Russian stations that monitor them.
>>
>> So lets see what we can hear.
>>
>> I know  there are not many in the club that deal with the low bands like
>> I do but even with 40 and up the Grayline can be significant to us to
>> work that hard to work station. One just has to know its there and how
>> to use it so it would make a great discussion at club meetings.
>>
>> Thanks for picking up on the subject.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On 4/5/2016 1:54 PM, W7EXG (Bill) wrote:
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> You're asking an interesting question, but my memory is fading! Hi Hi.
>>>
>>> While I have not documented the greyline signal strength vs time per se,
> I
>>> suspect it might depend upon the Frequency, and the Near-side or Far-Side
>>> type propagation.
>>>
>>> I think we all have an excellent opportunity NOW to observe signals vs
>> time,
>>> for the HEARD PM far-side Greyline .. and on 160m, 40m, 30m, 20m, and
>> maybe
>>> 17m, in the next few nights.
>>>
>>> OBJECTIVE: How does the far-side HEARD signal strength change relative to
>>> sunset/sunrise Local time,  as a function of frequency, time, LP/SP.
>> Perhaps
>>> bearing change might also be interesting, especially if much different
>> than
>>> the Greyline, and Geometrical Angle.
>>>
>>> For HEARD/TUCSON sunrise/sunset local data.
>>>
>>> UTC APRIL 6
>>> 	SUNRISE HEARD  6:39AM Local
>>> 	SUNSET  TUCSON 6:44pm Local
>>>
>>> Note: dT = [Tsunset(Tus) - Tsunrise(Hrd)] = 5 min. See the Greyline Map
> at
>>> 01:44Z for April 6th UTC. Its PERFECT!!
>>>
>>> THIS IS ALMOST A GREYLINE DATA TAKER'S DREAM, for FAR-SIDE Data. And the
>>> target signal is transmitting almost all the time on most the bands. Its
>>> like testing a far-side  Greyline multiband beacon signal.
>>>
>>> For UTC
>>> 4/7   dT = 5 Min
>>> 4/8   dT = 4 min
>>> 4/9   dT = 3 min
>>> 4/10  dT = 2 min
>>>
>>> For 40m - 17m, I can take signal data tonight, and a few other
> nights...as
>> a
>>> function of time, LP, SP and bearing. Thinking of  starting maybe an hour
>> or
>>> more prior to sunset, and 5 hours after sunset, taking data at 1/2 Hour
>>> intervals.  I have 3 ele on 40m and 30m, so I can note bearing on these
>>> bands as well.
>>>
>>> I do not have 80m or 160m capability.. so if someone else would like to
>>> document this HEARD signal data vs time on these bands,  that would be
>>> great.
>>>
>>> What an excellent opportunity for us to observe the far-side greyline
>>> signals vs time and frequency,  when the far-side and near-side local
>>> greyline UTC times are almost identical.
>>>
>>> We can report on this at the next SADXA meeting.
>>>
>>> Glad you asked Jerry!!
>>>
>>> 73s, Bill W7EXG
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: SADXA [mailto:sadxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
>> Wothe
>>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 5:36 PM
>>> To: Southern AZ DX Association E-Mail Reflector
>>> Subject: Re: [SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK (Heard)
>> /
>>> AZ Propagation
>>>
>>> This for for you folks that have watched the grayline and listened to
>>> the DX stations. What has been your experience as to when the real peak
>>> in signal strength occurs? In my case I have listened to a lot of 160
>>> grayline and just about always about 10min before the actual SR is when
>>> I usually see the peak. Cant say the other bands because I have not done
>>> much there to make the observation.
>>>
>>> W6XI
>>>
>>> On 4/4/2016 5:06 PM, k7bhm at cox.net wrote:
>>>> Bill and all..
>>>>
>>>> An excellent analysis of "Gray-Line" and how it effects propagation
>>>> between Arizona and Heard.........Tucson and Phoenix Gray-line being
> only
>>>> a few minutes apart...
>>>>
>>>> 63 years ago while learning how to use a compass in Boy Scouts, we
>>>> were taught that in Arizona, Magnetic North was always 13 degrees
>>>> away (East) from True North. We had to make that adjustment when
>>>> locating different objects in the field.
>>>>
>>>> Who would'a thunk the concept was alive and well today with our
>> radios!!!!
>>>> Bob - K7BHM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- "W7EXG (Bill)" <W7EXG at q.com> wrote:
>>>>> The described Greyline bearing vs true Bearing difference of 13 deg
>> would
>>>>> not seem to have much difference on a directional antenna's gain.
>>>>>
>>>>> I simulated 13 deg 20m gain loss for a 3 ele SteppIR to be about 0.7dB.
>>> The
>>>>> same analysis for my 20m DB42 (5 ele on 42 ft boom) yielded a 1.2dB
>>>>> difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although this does not seem like much, but when signals are at or near
>>> the
>>>>> noise level, a 1.2dB signal improvement is helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frequency propagation considerations are uniquely different along the
>>>>> Greyline, and uniquely dependant upon the near-side or far-side
> targets.
>>>>> For near-side, both stations are experiencing the Light to Dark (Dark
> to
>>>>> Light) transition together, while for far-side, one station is
>>> progressing
>>>>> from dark to light, while the other station is experiencing light to
>>> dark,
>>>>> or visa versa. This last case, is the case for HEARD.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no other propagation region on Earth, where over a distance of
>>>>> about 1200 miles, the Light side shows a strong D layer, and High MUF
>>> with
>>>>> F2 layer, while the Dark side shows weak, or no D layer, [with F Layer
>>> low
>>>>> band DX propagation] and low MUF. I find the MUF gradient interesting
>>> across
>>>>> the Greyline.
>>>>>
>>>>> For near-side propagation along the Greyline, both stations start low
>>>>> frequency and work toward high frequency, or visa versa, dependent upon
>>> dark
>>>>> to light, or light to dark transition respectively.
>>>>>
>>>>> For far-side propagation along the greyline, one station is
>> transitioning
>>>>> from low to high MUF, and the other is transitioning from high to low
>>> MUF.
>>>>> This is a complicated process to accurately predict/model, but may be
>>>>> possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Somewhere in the middle of the near-side/far-side greyline, the
>>> propagation
>>>>> works..
>>>>>
>>>>> I was amazed on 4/2/16 0300Z to 0400Z UTC, VK0EK [11,000 miles away]
> was
>>>>> being heard/worked on 40m, 30m, 20m, and 17m almost at the same time.
>>> Don't
>>>>> hear this too often. No place line the Greyline Experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greyline propagation is unique, and in some cases it is not clear what
>>>>> frequency to utilize, especially for the near-side/far-side
> propagation.
>>>>> 73s, Bill W7EXG
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: SADXA [mailto:sadxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
>>> Wothe
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 4:01 PM
>>>>> To: Southern AZ DX Association E-Mail Reflector
>>>>> Subject: Re: [SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK
>> (Heard)
>>> /
>>>>> AZ Propagation
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to consider what frequency you are working with also. The dark
>>>>> side is better for the low bands and the sunny side for the higher
>>>>> frequencies. Who is in the dark and who is in the light and when. If
> you
>>>>> are worrying about where to set your antenna, _+_ 10 degrees, very few
>>>>> antennas are that sharp that you can notice it. Plus depending on
>>>>> frequency the signal my not be best right on the great circle bearing.
>>>>> Lots of antenna rotating goes on right at SR/SS to find out just where
>>>>> is the signal coming from.
>>>>>
>>>>> W6XI
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/3/2016 3:06 PM, W7EXG (Bill) wrote:
>>>>>> By now, most of us have recognized the two opportunities per day, for
>>>>>> propagation between AZ and VK0EK, due to the Greyline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> QRZ bearing data shows 186 deg Short Path (SP) (6 deg Long Path (LP))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The question becomes: Is this geometrical bearing, the correct bearing
>>>>> when
>>>>>> Greyline propagation is being considered? I submit the correct answer
>>> is..
>>>>>> Not Always.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For April 4th, 0140Z UTC, the greyline passing through Tucson, also
>>> passes
>>>>>> slightly West of Heard Island. The Greyline Terminator line is along
>> the
>>> 7
>>>>>> deg / 187 deg line. It is almost the perfect storm, since the Greyline
>>>>>> propagation path is close to the required 186 deg SP bearing. As most
>> of
>>>>> us
>>>>>> know, the evening propagation for VK0EK has recently been exceptional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (HEARD considering staying put!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, for April 4th, 1300Z UTC, the greyline passing thought
> Tucson,
>>>>>> passes significantly more West of Heard Island. In this case, the
>>> Greyline
>>>>>> Terminator line is along the 353 deg and 173 deg line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This suggests the morning propagation may be best at a SP bearing of
>> 173
>>>>>> degrees, not 186 degrees (a 13 deg bearing difference)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because of the further west Greyline for HEARD, and an indirect
>>>>> propagation
>>>>>> path, this suggests the AM propagation between AZ and HEARD may
>>> currently
>>>>>> not be as good as in the PM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This analysis is based on the greyline prediction websites.. some of
>>>>> which,
>>>>>> may not yield identical results. The link below is easy to use, and
>> will
>>>>>> verify my analysis above. It agreed with several others greyline
>>>>> predictors
>>>>>> I tried.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://academo.org/demos/day-night-terminator/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73s, and good luck with HEARD!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill W7EXG
>> ______________________________________________________________
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